Steve Dinner came back on the show to argue against himself. The two-week sprint he once swore by is finished, and he's pulling the wires back out. Then he makes a claim most Salesforce practitioners would call heresy: you should consider converting your entire CRM to Apex.

Steve is VP of Revenue Operations at Owner.com, where he runs the function with zero in-house Salesforce admins and zero developers. He came up as a BDR director who got handed RevOps, so he never built the deep technical foundation most operators lean on — which is exactly why he says agentic tooling made him a thousand times more dangerous. Over the last six months he's rebuilt how his team works: his own MCP servers, a shared context repo that syncs to every operator's machine overnight, an agent sitting at intake.

In this conversation with LeanScale co-founder Anthony Enrico, Steve makes the case that when the cost of building collapses, the sprint stops serving the business, planning and testing become the expensive work, and the real job of RevOps becomes deciding what risk a change carries — not what week it ships in. Plus: the RevOps ratio he right-sized after it hit 29 to 1, how to ask a CFO for budget without being another hand out, and what's left for Salesforce once nobody wants to click through Flow Builder.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

Why the two-week sprint stopped serving RevOps — and the three-track model replacing it

The case for converting your CRM to Apex, and the objections Steve calls uninspired

CHAPTERS

00:00 — Cold open + intro

01:57 — Why the two-week sprint is finished

04:16 — The build got cheap. Planning and testing got expensive.

06:30 — What's left of agile, and what gets thrown away

08:00 — Walking the floor: a BDR director shipping his own Claude artifact

09:52 — Rigid business logic, democratized experience layer

12:01 — The new model: two gates and one custom app per role

14:54 — Three tracks: skin, metadata, project

20:58 — Does AI shrink the RevOps team?

24:27 — What becomes possible when three months turns into a day

25:54 — The RevOps ratio: 15:1, 25:1, and the 29:1 problem

30:37 — How to pitch a CFO for budget

33:43 — The Apex heresy

38:15 — Handing an LLM the gnarliest flow — and it finds two bugs

41:34 — A year out: does anyone still log into Salesforce?

46:17 — What is Salesforce actually worth now?

50:18 — The most AI-friendly CRM there is

54:55 — Wrap

ABOUT THE GUEST

Steve Dinner is the VP of Revenue Operations at Owner.com, the restaurant technology company that raised a $120M Series C at a $1B valuation and now serves more than 10,000 restaurants. He came up through sales development — a BDR director who got handed RevOps — and runs the function today with no in-house Salesforce admins and no developers, betting instead on strong process, senior generalists, and agentic tooling. This is his second appearance on The LeanScale Podcast.

ABOUT THE LEANSCALE PODCAST

The LeanScale Podcast is the show for GTM operators building the next generation of revenue infrastructure. Hosted by Anthony Enrico, co-founder of LeanScale, we go deep with the operators, founders, and executives shaping how modern go-to-market teams are designed, scaled, and transformed.

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KEYWORDS / TAGS

RevOps, Revenue Operations, GTM, GTM Engineering, Salesforce, Salesforce Apex, Apex, Flow Builder, Salesforce MCP, MCP Server, Model Context Protocol, Claude, Claude Code, AI Agents, Agentic AI, AI in RevOps, Agile, Two Week Sprint, Change Management, Sales Operations, Sales Enablement, MEDDIC, CRM, CRM Strategy, RevOps Ratio, RevOps Budget, CFO, CRO, B2B SaaS, Owner.com, LeanScale, Anthony Enrico, Steve Dinner

HASHTAGS

#RevOps #GTM #AI #Salesforce #Apex #RevenueOperations #AIAgents #MCP #Agile #B2BSaaS #CRM #AITransformation #LeanScale #LeanScalePodcast

Convert Your Entire CRM to Apex | Steve Dinner on Why the Two-Week Sprint Is Dead

The LeanScale Podcast with Anthony Enrico

Convert Your Entire CRM to Apex | Steve Dinner on Why the Two-Week Sprint Is Dead