Jay Larson, Executive Coach, Facilitator, Sales Leader, and Founder of Lights On Coaching & Consulting, is driven by a mission to Turn on the Lights for Others by helping individuals unlock their potential through coaching, leadership development, and transformative experiences. By combining executive coaching, experiential learning, and decades of leadership expertise, Jay empowers leaders to build trust, embrace vulnerability, and create lasting personal and professional growth.

In this conversation, Jay introduces The How to Gain Trust Framework—Be Present, Be Curious, Be Vulnerable, and Judge Not. He explains why authentic coaching begins with deep presence and genuine curiosity, how vulnerability creates psychological safety for meaningful conversations, and why withholding judgment helps leaders build trust and accountability. Jay also shares how challenging experiences, executive peer groups, and coaching conversations help leaders overcome isolation, gain confidence, and achieve breakthrough moments that transform both their businesses and their lives.

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Turn on the Lights for Others with Jay Larson

Good day, listeners. The Management Blueprint podcast is here, and my guest today is Jay Larson, an experienced executive coach, facilitator, and sales leader with over 20 years of impact across industries. Jay has guided more than 400 individuals through transformative coaching, backed by 40 years of expertise in assessments, success profiles, and competency frameworks. He helped launch and leads a thriving nonprofit that’s touched over 500 lives through experiential learning and outdoor recovery programs. Welcome to the show, Jay.

Oh, thank you, Steve. Thanks for having me.

Well, you have a fascinating background and have helped a lot of people, which is obviously the biggest thing. So what would you say is your personal “Why” that you are manifesting through your practice?

Well, I think my personal “Why” is really turning the lights on for others. That solidified for me probably five or ten years ago. As I realized, through the work I was doing with Korn Ferry, the work with clients, and the work with the people who reported to me, it was never really about the money. I did like winning—winning sales and things like that. That’s always nice. But it was really more about the impact we were making. Were we making an impact? That sort of thing. So I realized pretty quickly, through my coaching training, that

353: Turn on the Lights for Others with Jay Larson
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That’s fascinating. So when you work with experiential learning and outdoor recovery programs, tell me a little bit about those. How do those help?

So I help lead. I’m the president of the board. A friend of mine and I got together probably 10 or 12 years ago. He had built a little nonprofit called Wild Hearts Adventures, and the basic idea was that his son was in recovery. Any time they went to the mountains or did anything outdoors—climbing, canoeing, fishing, anything like that—his son would come alive. They would connect on a different level than they normally would during that obviously trying time for a parent-child relationship, with all kinds of tough love, easy love, and all that kind of stuff.

So he noticed that connection. He wanted to take it bigger. We talked. I’d done a ton of outdoor stuff in my past, and my kids had recently grown up and were leaving home and things like that. So I had time to focus on that. We take people on all kinds of different outdoor excursions, and it really is about connection through adventure.

That's what we're trying to drive—that connection. Helping people know they're cared about. Helping them know they can be their authentic selves without judgment. And that they can do really hard things.
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That’s interesting. I have a friend who was also on this podcast some time ago, and he also does a lot of mountaineering, but he does it with CEOs. He goes one-on-one with a CEO, and they climb for two or three days. Obviously, there’s lots of conversation going on. What is the driver of the impact in these environments? What makes people come closer together?

Yeah, it’s interesting. What makes them come together is that sense of adventure, that sense of the unknown, and their willingness to challenge themselves. We’re very open up front with folks who join that this is going to be difficult. Most of them have never camped overnight. We’re taking them to the Rocky Mountains and getting to the top of some very, very high places.

You wouldn’t believe it once you walk to the base of those mountains and look at them. You’re like, “There’s no way we’re going to the top of that.” So that fear and all of that… I find the impact on them—the reason they come—is their willingness to be challenged. The impact is not only the connection of the team, which is important because a lot of folks, certainly in recovery and otherwise, can feel quite lonely. What they’ve done is their fault. They have to recover from it. They have to do some heavy lifting and white-knuckling. This is more about the team helping.

We're all going to carry each other's stuff as we go up. We're going to hear from each other and talk with one another while we're up there.
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Then seeing them at the top of the mountain, when they reach 14,000-plus feet and they’ve put in the work to get there, they realize—to a person—that they can do very hard things. Their recovery, the next step in their career—whoever we’ve taken up there—it’s always, “If I can do this, then I’m pretty sure I can face that.” Great metaphor.

Yeah. It is a great metaphor. I wonder what empowers them to actually accomplish it, because climbing a 15,000-foot mountain without being fit is no easy feat. Especially if they’re not used to having to be resilient. What empowers them to actually do it? How do they not give up? Is it the peer pressure? What is it?

Yeah, no, we’ve had people that go up and turn back. We do have it. We leave it up to them. We’re not going to force anybody to go up there. We’re not back there shouting at them or anything like that. Now, we do a lot of encouraging. They’ll say, “I’m too tired. I can’t keep going. There’s no way.” It’s like, “Listen, let’s just take a rest, then one more foot in front of the other. You can do this. I’ve done this.

I was in worse shape when I did my first one than you are now. You can do this. Come on. Just keep going. Just keep going.” So lots of encouragement, lots of coaching along the way. Very, very few people do these fourteeners. A lot of people do them, but relative to the population, very few do. So they look at this as a very, very daunting thing. What I know, having done it numerous times now, is that it’s all about how fast you want to get to the top.

It’s not whether you can get to the top. You can get there, barring an injury. It’s just that you might have to take more breaks. You might have to rest more often. You might have to go slower. You might have to swallow your pride. A lot of things like that. But if you’re willing, we’ll get you there.

Yeah. It’s interesting. When my grandfather was probably 79 years old, just one year before he passed away, we somehow convinced him to climb a little mountain. I mean, it’s not a big one, but maybe 1,000 feet. Okay. He was walking with a stick, and it was very steep. He made it up there, and then there was a beautiful inner lake that became visible.

He was so happy that he did it, and he was so grateful that we kind of twisted his arm a little bit to make this trip. It completely recharged him. He was an accomplished person. He was 80. He wasn’t in great shape. He’d had a couple of heart attacks beforehand, and it was a big emotional moment for him.

Yeah. There’s a sense of accomplishment. There’s something you prove to yourself when you do that. I remember reading The Comfort Crisis. I don’t totally remember the author’s name, but it’s called The Comfort Crisis. We’re not doing hard things as often. We have a lot of the hard things done for us. It used to be that you had to build your own house, or grow your own food, or lift heavy things on the farm over certain distances, or they didn’t get moved.

Now everything’s prepared in the store. We lift the heaviness of a 12-ounce can or a grocery bag. Those are the heavy things we lift. When we set our minds to doing something very, very difficult that we don’t think we can do, we grow something in ourselves. I know it’s not just psychological or emotional. There’s a physical nature to it as well.

The mental and physical parts, the way you grow your brain and change your brain when you’re doing those things. It’s not all just, “Yay, I proved it to myself.” You come down from the mountain a different person than you were when you went up. Slightly, and sometimes massively.

Yeah. I remember when I ran my first marathon, I felt a little bit like that. A wall came down, and I felt more invincible in some ways.

Yeah. Like, “There’s nothing I can’t do.” I had a particular gentleman who went on one of the first trips we did. He had been in the gangs. He was actually an enforcer for one of the gangs. So a pretty tough dude. He’d done a lot of things. He’d lost his children, lost his marriage, all kinds of things. He’d been in prison. He’d had a tough run and made a lot of bad choices, to be honest. He went on this thinking, “I’ll do what I can. What I want to do.” That sort of thing.

He had a pretty good attitude. But at the same time, when you get up on summit day and it’s 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, and we’re waking him up and getting him going, people aren’t always in the greatest moods. People are excited, but at the same time it’s dark, I didn’t sleep well, and I was nervous. So he’s on the trek up. He’s struggling. He’s stumbling. He’s not sure he can do it. That sort of thing. But he’s a pretty quiet guy.

He wasn’t complaining or anything. When we got to the top, he just sat there for a while. We all did. We just sat looking at the view because it’s an amazing view from 14,000 feet. We were all just standing there, and he looked over at me. I looked over at him. He had this grin on his face, and he goes, “Man, if I can do this, I’m going to get my kids back. I’m going to get my kids back. I can do it. This was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, but now I know I can do that.” You’re just sitting there, surreal in that moment, knowing that not only has this person’s life changed, your life has been changed by this person. Perhaps, generationally, things have changed for the family. And they have since then, the family’s back together, and as far as I know, things are going great.

He’s been promoted a couple of times at work and things like that. So that’s what I mean by turning the lights on. When you have those moments where there’s this realization inside a person of what they’re capable of or what they’ve accomplished. That’s a peak kind of situation for them. A peak experience. Yeah. Lovely to be a part of it.

So you just reminded me of an experience when I felt that way. It was actually when I launched my Vistage group back at the end of 2013. We had just moved here a year earlier, and Vistage reached out. I said, “Okay, I’m going to do this. I don’t know anyone in town, but that’s a great way to build a network.” It was pretty grueling work, cold-calling for three months solid.

I am aware.

Yeah. I know. That’s what I’m telling you. Yes. That was this kind of experience for me. I thought, “Wow, okay. If I can do this, then maybe I’m not a lost cause here in America.”

Yeah. Yeah. It really transfers, right? Just like you were saying, these, whatever you want to call them, mountaintop experiences for people, these moments in your life when you realize that, “I am capable.” Now, there are valley moments that we have as well. I had a gal that got… We were within 35 minutes of the peak of Mount Yale, and there’s kind of a plateau on the top. She got there, and she had a panic attack—a full-out panic attack—and would not let go of my arm. Couldn’t lead the group up to the summit.

My daughter actually—whole other story there—my daughter stepped up and led the group. Had never done it before. Just stepped up and led the group. Huge, tons of courage. But I immediately just turned this gal around, and we started going down the mountain right away because that’s the only thing you can do when somebody’s panicking up that high.

Where else are you going to go? We took the slow way down the mountain. There’s a quick way down that mountain, but that doesn’t end well. The slow way was just a slog. She was being apologetic the whole way down. She was feeling bad about herself and everything. I think since we’ve talked, Steve, since then, I got an email from her from the summit of that mountain, where she went up with somebody else and went back and did it.

She sent that to me. She said, “I miss our group. I just had to tell you that I made it.” I made the summit of this particular mountain where she failed before. I can’t tell you the joy that gives me as a human, just to see that happen with somebody else. I just love it.

Yeah. She owed it to herself to go back and do it.

Yeah. Yeah.

And not give up.

She promised. She said, “I’m going to do this. One day I’m coming back, and I’m going to do this.” It took a couple of years—a few years, actually—but she did it. So that’s fantastic.

That’s great. That’s great.

Yeah.

Jay, I’d like to switch gears here because this podcast is about frameworks. So, what is a framework that helps you create more impact with your Vistage groups, with your executive coaching clients, and the people that you climb mountains with? Do you have a framework that you can describe?

Yeah, I think let’s talk about that a little bit. I’ll tell you some of the things that I do. Perhaps I don’t know that I would call what I do a framework. I reach out to many people. I coach a lot of people through different contracts, Vistage groups, as well as my own practice. The thing that I think matters the most is gaining trust initially. Just having a natural curiosity for what’s happening with them.

Not being afraid to, as we have even on this call, do some back and forth. Like, “Yeah, I’ve seen that in my life,” or, “I’ve faced that before too. So how do you think you’ll go about it?” And having those questions. Again, it’s not pre-planned. I don’t pre-plan a whole lot for coaching sessions. I review and things like that, but I really want to go in fresh and really listen. I don’t know, Steve. You tell me. You’re the framework guy, right? You tell me. What’s my framework?

Well, what I’m hearing is being present, being curious and vulnerable because when you’re sharing your own experiences, sometimes it is, I guess you probably do that as well, that you share sometimes when you failed at something, and how you learned from it, and how you recovered from it. I do that with clients, and that allows them to be more honest, more vulnerable themselves, and be able to process things better.

Yeah. Knowing they’re not alone. Yeah. They’re not alone. Knowing they’re not alone is huge. I think another really important piece of how I approach things, that may or may not work—I guess we’ll see—is it’s not my job to make them feel good. It’s my job to get to the honest, authentic issue, or blockage, or whatever that is.

Well, I guess part of a framework that I believe in, I guess there’s been a couple from my past that I’ve knit together that have probably shaped a lot of what I do. One is I worked initially for a company called ChartHouse Learning, and they had what was called the Fish Philosophy back in the day. It’s the gentlemen out at Seattle’s Pike Place Market that throw the fish to the clients, throw the fish, come back behind the counter, and catch the fish, and things like that.

They filmed them and how they were driving engagement with the clients and each other. And four tenets of that philosophy were: be there, or be present, like you were saying, so that’s had some impact. Play, which is have some fun with it.

Compete, you know, in some ways. Make a game of some things, in some sense of the word. Be there, play, make their day, which is a focus on others versus yourself, so you're there to make their day.
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And then choose your attitude was the fourth. That’s all copyrighted by ChartHouse Learning, whatever. It’s not mine. But you can choose whatever attitude you really want going into the day. So regardless of what is presented to you, your reaction is yours to choose. So that’s, I think, had a big impact on how I address things, as well as spending a lot of time in leadership development.

And so many times seeing development fall flat brings up another framework of just how we actually develop as people. And that is we have to be aware that there’s something we need to change. We need to own it. We need to be responsible. Take responsibility for that gap or that change. And then we need to be willing to act on it. Willing to do something about it.

So many times in pre-planned leadership development sessions, and coursework, and things like that, we can miss the mark for that individual. They may be aware of a gap. I mean, Instagram will tell you what you should be these days, right? There’s plenty of, “I can see the gap between me and that person.” Yeah. “I can see the gap between my house and theirs,” whatever that might be.

But do you own it? Are you really aware that that’s an issue that I have? And are you going to take responsibility for it? Then do something about it?

Commit and be accountable. That's where coaching really struck a chord for me. I had been in corporate, selling and doing business development for a long time.
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That was always great, but you never got to do the work. You got to deliver the promise, but you never got to deliver the result. Yeah. Now with coaching, I’m able to do that with individuals and teams. Walk them through that. Be honest. Really dig in. Ask the hard questions about their responsibility for the situation, et cetera. So that’s the favorite part of my work.

Yeah. This is a piece that AI is not going to disrupt because AI cannot hold someone accountable, right? It’s just an individual. Yeah. A person who has emotions, who cares about you. They can hold you accountable because you don’t want to disappoint them. But AI cannot do this. AI cannot build trust. I guess it might be able to if it gives good answers all the time.

You start to trust it. But you never know because there’s no person behind it. Who do you trust? The software program? Yeah. That doesn’t work. Yeah. So trust, accountability, and emotions are pure undisruptables, elements of what we do.

And it ends up being the part that connects us, right?

Yeah.

I mean, ironically, we connect to the computer. We connect to the internet. But we never really connect with it. You could say, to some degree, you connect with other people through different apps and things like that. But there’s something about being in person. There’s something about having the back and forth and the consistency over time. It’s not that different on the mountain trips than it is in coaching. A little more comfortable. A little more comfortable.

Sitting in a chair.

Yeah.

But if it’s too comfortable, it’s probably not as effective.

Right. So maybe it won’t. Right. It’s a different kind of uncomfortable.

Yeah.

Right? Yeah. A different kind of uncomfortable. I guess if you’re saying framework, those are kind of some of the mantras, or the credo, whatever it is, that I live by. If it’s not authentic, I don’t really want to do it. From a coaching standpoint, I know you’ve coached some people in your career, and what you’ve done with Vistage and that. There’s some times when people are just kind of mailing it in.

I haven’t gotten the courage up yet to close a call based on that. Like, “Well, you’re just kind of mailing it in, so let’s connect next month.” But it makes you feel like that, right? Like, why am I here? Why am I doing this? If we’re not producing some kind of meaning, or purpose, or moving one of us forward, then what are we doing? Why are we doing it?

Yeah. I always wondered about this because I always wondered whether I should own this. There are people who are more vulnerable, who are more coachable, who are more open, who are more willing to let you see them. And there are people who are not. But they are there, so they need something that they came to get. So whose responsibility is it? If, for them, it’s harder to get there, then should it be on me as well to make it happen?

And obviously you can’t guarantee it, but I’m always wondering about it. So when people were mailing it in, I was always wondering, “What could I have done differently so that they wouldn’t do that, or that they didn’t do it, or maybe they’d make some steps?”

Yeah. I feel the exact same thing. I know exactly what you’re talking about. Yeah. I was just talking to somebody earlier about this exact situation where we had a group of 8 to 10 leaders, and one of them just didn’t engage, hadn’t scheduled the meetings, and things like that. After a number of tries to get them engaged, it’s that classic, “You can lead a horse to water,” right? Yeah. They may be full of water already. They may be waterlogged. So I don’t want to judge them for that, right?

That’s the kind of thing where I can get upset. Just my natural reaction. I can get upset that they aren’t engaging, and I can get upset at myself that I can’t get them to engage. You can go there.

Yeah.

But really, at the end of the day, I can only do what I can do.

Yeah.

Then we have to get to the point where you have the fierce conversation where you’re saying, “It doesn’t feel like you’re engaging.” “Can you help me understand why that might be?” Yeah. Then leave it there and let them answer the question. “I don’t want to.” Right? Yeah. It’s like, “Okay, well, why are we scheduling these meetings?” “Let’s just save everybody some time and money.” Or, “I don’t know how to.” Okay. I can help you with that. Those sorts of things. Or, “I don’t know why I would need to.” We can help with that, too. But I can’t change, “I don’t want to.” I can’t change it directly.

Yeah, you can’t. You know what I also experienced sometimes? There were some members, especially who were maybe older, who just wanted to be heard. They just wanted an audience. Maybe they would not get that because spouses are often sick of hearing about business stuff and things that they don’t relate to.

That person just needed someone. Sometimes people are so starved for conversation that they don’t even care whether you’re really listening. They just want to trick themselves into believing that someone is at least listening. It’s the saddest version of it.

Yeah. Yeah. When you work with Vistage, we’ll see a lot of that. Where there’s the isolation of the leader at the top of whatever business it is. What I suggest to them is, “I’m going to try and create a safe space with trust.” “I’m not saying anything to anybody else about what you share.” “So say what needs to be said.” “Be yourself.” “Let down your guard.” “We’ll get there.” Right?

It’s not like they’re just going to walk into a room with me as a stranger, just because they decided, and they’re going to let down their guard. But session by session by session, they let down their guard. You end up talking about things that they can’t mention to anybody else at work because it would shake an employee’s confidence or something. Or how do you, as the CEO of an organization, say, “I don’t know what to do”?

Here’s the place. This is what we give you. That’s why I love it because, again, that’s kind of a lights-on moment, is what I would call it. It’s their ability to take that deep breath, lean back, and just be themselves and say, “I don’t know.” You don’t have to fake it all the time around everybody that’s depending on you. So that’s a real relief for a lot of folks.

Yeah. That’s huge, to be able to unburden yourself. It is true. When you are in a responsible position, sometimes you have to absorb all the uncertainty in the business or the potential risks. You can’t talk about it because then you are amplifying that risk. Then people start worrying, and that kind of paralyzes people.

Then the business is in an even worse position. What really shocked me when I became a Vistage Chair was how few CEOs these CEOs actually knew. It wasn’t just that they were isolated inside their company. Maybe they were isolated at home because their spouse didn’t want to hear it, or they didn’t want to burden their spouse because then it would come back to them eventually with the anxiety of the spouse as a further pressure.

So they might not want to share that. But they didn’t even know other CEOs because they were so busy working in their business, they had no time to go play golf and meet other people. The only time they could do that was in the Vistage group once a month. They could rationalize that this is business. They are working on the business. That gave them permission to take the day off and fraternize with other CEOs.

Yeah. That’s such an important thing. It’s such an important thing to know that you do have a group of people that will have your back, regardless of what you come with. We had a meeting in my group not too long ago where we had some breakthroughs. It was really special to see a group that didn’t know each other, didn’t even know each other existed three or four months prior, sharing about how time is short, possibly because of some health issues. How their business is so important because it’s their legacy.

It’s what they’ll leave behind when they move on. That’s really personal, deep, meaningful conversation. When you allow space for it, it can happen. Build it, and they will come, kind of a thing. I just think that’s so important because I think CEOs who see this may be sitting there bottling that up. They’re taking that stress and trying to hold it. There’s so much energy that it takes to do that, that they wonder why their business isn’t growing, or why they can’t get past a certain amount of revenue, employee count, client service, or breaking into certain levels.

They don’t realize that the more they’re holding that in, it’s almost like they’re holding that growth captive. They just don’t have the energy. They get burned out. That’s when bad decisions start happening. They get emotional, or they just are done. You know? Yeah. They do. I’ve talked to so many people that are just, “I’m just so done with this.”

Yeah. They become unhappy. Then the people around them become unhappy. Then unhappy people don’t do well in the business. They don’t grow the business. Then the CEO feels even worse and lashes out. Yeah. Yeah. That’s huge. When you have the CEOs, and each of them shares things and becomes very vulnerable, then it becomes a safe space.

That’s what creates the trust, right? They all have skin in the game because they all share stuff that they don’t want to get out of the group. Therefore, they can trust the other person to do the same thing.

Yeah. Trust is huge. When you think about it, like this might be odd, but I think when some people think about the holidays and being around family, some people get excited for that, and some people cringe at that, right? Because I think a lot of that is, yes, you’re family, and it’s almost a forced relationship sometimes. They don’t trust. They won’t share their authentic self with that other person in the family. What should be a holiday, and restful, restoring, energizing time, becomes more of a forced situation where it’s draining.

Then you start to distance yourself even more. I think the idea of just having that safe space where other perspectives are in the room is a huge thing as well. Helping people think differently than you. Surrounding yourself with those people. Because you can’t necessarily afford to bring them on just because they think differently.

Having them in a group where they will give you a different perspective, and also hold your trust, and let’s face it, just give a damn about you, and how you’re doing, and connect, and want you to succeed, it’s huge. Having people in your corner like that. Yeah. It’s not always naturally there because of timing and other things, like you were mentioning.

And then one more thing. Before I came to Vistage, I had a mastermind group. Oh, yeah. When I was a business owner, which I organized. It worked initially well until it stopped working because I didn’t have the time to invest in it. To make sure everyone showed up. To make sure everyone brought topics, to discuss issues to the table. So it fizzled out.

I think what’s special about Vistage is that there is a person who is committed to making this happen and making it a high-quality experience. Yeah. That is actually priceless because without the person, the time that those CEOs are investing is wasted. Then it’s not even worth showing up for it, right?

Yeah, exactly.

That’s a unique thing. It actually doesn’t really get copied. I don’t see other organizations that can really provide the same quality of experience without that committed Chair, who is thinking about these members all the time, spends some time with them one-on-one, and then makes sure the meeting happens, people show up, and there’s good content in the meeting. It’s very valuable.

Yeah.

So anyhow, if someone would like to learn about Vistage or connect with you, where could they do that?

Yeah. I think LinkedIn is probably the best place for that. I have a LinkedIn page that touches on my Lights On Coaching and Consulting practice, named for exactly what we’ve been talking about. It covers my Vistage group and also the nonprofit, Wild Hearts Adventures. So if anybody is struck by that, go to my LinkedIn. Let’s connect on there, and we’ll just have some conversation. I just love having conversations with new people, with fresh perspectives, regardless of whether we connect and do work together or just even keep in contact.

It’s just lovely speaking with one another, similar to what we’re doing now. Sharing that philosophy. Sharing that why. It’s just encouraging to hear that from others. So I welcome anybody to reach out to my LinkedIn. I don’t know if we can put a link in here to that page or not, but certainly we can.

Yeah. We can directly link that. We’ll put your LinkedIn URL in the show notes. You can just Google Jay Larson Vistage Chair, and he’ll pop up, and you can connect with him. So Jay, thanks for coming and sharing some wonderful stories about people who climbed the mountain, and how it changed their lives. If you enjoyed this conversation, make sure you stay tuned because I have wonderful subject matter experts, CEOs, and business owners who come and share their stories. Wonderful. So thanks for coming, and thanks for listening.

Yes. Thank you. Take care.

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Turn on the Lights for Others with Jay Larson

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353: Turn on the Lights for Others with Jay Larson