The Squiggly Careers podcast has been hugely influential and useful for anyone interested in Career Development community. In this episode I talk to Sarah Ellis and Helen Tupper, the brilliant pair behind the podcast, the two bestselling books that have come out of it – Squiggly Careers and You Coach You – and the company they have founded, Amazing if.

We discuss:

How, in looking to throw out the old model of the ‘career ladder’, they arrived at that fascinating idea and language of the ‘squiggle’
How they’ve found a much more engaging way to talk to people about confidence issues, and why it works
Why dullness in large organisations is often a kind of conformity
How to be a ‘helpful rebel’ in big companies if you want to help shake up dull practices

Along the way, they talk about a fascinating idea: ‘the long aha’ – that realisation that comes to you sometime after an engaging moment in a meeting, prompting you to question something you are doing, when you realise how pervasive that practice and issue has been in your life. As fascinating and useful as you would expect from the inimitable Sarah and Helen.

Listen to the Squiggly Careers podcast

Find out more about Amazing If's work

Helen and Sarah's books:

The Squiggly Career

You Coach You

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See what’s coming up on the podcast at The Challenger Project

With thanks to our editor Ruth and producer Ross.

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Episode 8: The interesting Squiggle and the long ‘Aha’ (with Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis)

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Episode 8: The interesting Squiggle and the long ‘Aha’ (with Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis)