U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy.

01:53 - How Pasulka’s religious studies led to the U.F.O. debate
06:08 - Modern U.F.O. encounters and telepathic communication
13:29 - What are the actual beliefs of the U.F.O. community?
19:28 - Whistleblowers and government contradictions
31:35 - Angels, demons and “actual things in the sky”
45:38 - Disclosure
52:51 - “Amazing.”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

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What if the Government Believes in U.F.O.s More Than You Do?

Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

What if the Government Believes in U.F.O.s More Than You Do?