How do you build a sales culture where top performers are empowered and poor performers are not protected? In this episode, CJ is joined by Daniel Lentz, whose career has spanned sales, taking an e-commerce platform public during a global pandemic, and, interestingly, seminary. Daniel Lentz is the CFO of BigCommerce and an expert in designing comp plans that work. In this episode, he breaks down his approach to this and how to avoid the pitfalls that can easily discourage your salespeople. He explains how to align sales and marketing efforts, touching on multi-touch attribution models, before discussing why he focuses on input metrics over output metrics. The conversation covers the importance of having an operator-first mindset, the skill of having a BS detector, the challenges of navigating macroeconomic factors, the role of mentorship, and why teaching your team how the company actually makes money is the ultimate unlock.

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LINKS:

Daniel Lentz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-lentz-5ba8134/

BigCommerce:

https://www.bigcommerce.com

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics:

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:28) Sponsor – Brex | Aleph | RightRev

(07:04) Daniel’s Unconventional Career Arc

(11:40) Being an Operator-First CFO

(14:05) The Skill of Having a Good BS Detector

(15:45) Sponsor – Navan | NetSuite | Pulley

(19:16) Why People Make Things Sound More Complicated Than They Are

(21:33) Transitioning From a Top Sales Rep to a Top Sales Leader

(24:46) Daniel’s Philosophy When Designing Comp Plans

(28:53) A Hot Take on Capping Big Deals

(35:01) Onboarding Great Sales Leaders

(38:17) Multi-Touch Attribution Models

(42:36) How Finance Can Reduce Sales Versus Marketing Turf Wars

(44:52) The Metrics That Matter: Input Versus Output

(47:30) Misdiagnosing Problems in SaaS Go-to-Market Models

(49:00) Why Benchmarking Can Be Misleading

(51:06) How Small Companies Can Compete With Big Companies

(52:22) The Power of Explaining to Employees How the Company Makes Money

(55:56) Why Daniel Doesn’t Want Employees To Be Distracted by the Macro

(57:19) Explaining Rational Interest Rates to Employees Under 30

(59:24) How Mentorship Has Influenced Daniel’s Career

(1:01:12) Advice for Taking Investor Advice

(1:03:04) Long-Ass Lightning Round: A Big Career Mistake

(1:04:51) Advice to Younger Self: Careerism Is a Trap

(1:06:49) Finance Software Stack

(1:10:32) Craziest Expense Story

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SPONSORS:

Brex offers the world's smartest corporate card on a full-stack global platform that is everything CFOs need to manage their finances on an elite level. Plus, they offer modern banking and treasury as well as intuitive expenses and accounting automation, bill pay, and travel. Find out more at https://www.brex.com/metrics

Aleph automates 90% of manual, error-prone busywork, so you can focus on the strategic work you were hired to do. Minimize busywork and maximize impact with the power of a web app, the flexibility of spreadsheets, and the magic of AI. Get a personalised demo at https://www.getaleph.com/run

RightRev automates the revenue recognition process from end to end, gives you real-time insights, and ensures ASC 606 / IFRS 15 compliance—all while closing books faster. For RevRec that auditors actually trust, visit

https://www.rightrev.com

and schedule a demo.

Navan is the all-in-one travel and expense solution that helps finance teams streamline reconciliation, enforce policies automatically, and gain real-time visibility. It connects to your existing cards and makes closing the books faster and smarter. Visit https://navan.com/runthenumbers for your demo.

NetSuite is an AI-powered business management suite, encompassing ERP/Financials, CRM, and ecommerce for more than 41,000 customers. If you're looking for an ERP, head to https://netsuite.com/metrics and get the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning.

Pulley is the cap table management platform built for CFOs and finance leaders who need reliable, audit-ready data and intuitive workflows, without the hidden fees or unreliable support. Switch in as little as 5 days and get 25% off your first year: https://pulley.com/mostlymetrics.

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