In this episode, CJ interviews Justin Coulombe, the CFO of Miro. Apart from his “less but better” philosophy where he encourages listeners to strategically divest from less important things to focus on what’s most impactful, he also shares a wealth of profound advice on being an effective CFO in SaaS. He explains Miro’s approach to blending data from usage patterns, predictive modeling, and AI to identify upsell opportunities, prevent churn, and enhance customer retention. The discussion dives into the company’s unique combination of product-led growth (PLG) and human-touch sales motions, exploring how to harness both while avoiding internal channel conflict. Justin also offers his perspective on the per-seat pricing model, why it still works for Miro, and whether outcome-based pricing is the future. Drawing on his experiences leading major transformations at Autodesk, Box, SurveyMonkey, and now Miro, he provides a framework for CFOs navigating business model transitions and explains why they fail. He also shares bold takes on SaaS business practices that need rethinking and his thoughts on how to balance growth and profitability in SaaS.

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@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(01:58) Sponsor – RemoFirst | Mercury

(04:13) An Intro to Miro

(05:47) Justin’s Framework for Using Data to Drive Outcomes

(12:09) The “Less but Better” Philosophy

(14:34) Examples of Divesting from Things

(16:54) Sponsor – NetSuite | Operators Guild | Maxio

(21:49) Slowing Down to Speed Up

(22:51) How to Say No Gracefully

(25:43) Maintaining Standards While Encouraging People to Take Risks

(28:16) Using Usage Patterns to Drive Monetization

(30:07) “Sticky Installation” – Meeting the Customer Where They Are

(32:41) Blending Self-Serve PLG and Field Sales Motions

(37:16) Per Seat-Based Pricing Versus Outcome-Based Pricing

(42:08) Why Seat-Based Pricing Model Works Miro

(44:08) Advice for CFOs Navigating Major Transitions in Their Business Models

(47:41) The Reasons Business Transformations Fail

(49:25) SaaS Business Practices from the Last Decade That Need Rethinking

(53:02) The Trade-Off Between Growth and Profitability in SaaS

(56:00) Long-Ass Lightning Round: A Poor Hiring Decision

(59:34) Finance Software Stack

(01:00:51) Craziest Expense Story

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Less but Better: Miro’s Justin Coulombe on the Power of Strategic Divestment in SaaS

Run the Numbers