This podcast episode explores the concept of perversity and its manifestations in various forms. Perversity is defined as choosing to do something wrong, at least in part, because it is wrong. The episode discusses examples of perverse actions, both seemingly benign and creatively disruptive, such as stealing pears for pleasure, intentionally causing discomfort, and challenging norms in art. It also highlights the psychological measure of the "need-for-chaos scale" to assess an individual's desire for chaos. The episode further delves into the power of perversity and irrationality in human behavior, including how it can be a creative force and a source of joy and power. Additionally, it explores the motivation for perverse actions, including the desire for autonomy and freedom. Overall, this episode reveals the complex and intriguing nature of perversity and its impact on individuals and society.