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Michael is the best nonfiction writer in America — and another friend from the early TNR days. He’s the author of so many bestsellers, including Liar’s Poker, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Flash Boys. He was on the Dishcast four years ago to discuss The Premonition: A Pandemic Story, and last year to discuss a collection of essays called Who Is Government?

This week we’re covering his new book, Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State, which profiles some unknown heroes in the bureaucracy who defended the rule of law against Trump in his second term — and faced the consequences. Think of it as the flip-side of Jake Weisberg’s treatment of the powerful cowards who caved.

The episode was recorded on September 29, 2026, and aired on October 9. Below are timestamps for the main sections of the pod:

* 03:36: How Michael decided to frame and shape the book

* 11:32: DOGE as the tip of the spear for Trump 2.0

* 27:36: The physical takeover of buildings by DOGE

* 42:45: The amazing story of Alex Marangides inventing a new fire science

* 101:20: Covid policy and the turmoil at the National Institutes of Health

* 119:32: Michael’s moving tribute to his daughter Dixie

For three audio clips — why DOGE was never really about downsizing, the only member of DOGE who was fired, and Michael writing a play for his deceased daughter — head to our YouTube page.

More topics covered: how Trump 2.0 is different than 1.0; firing his transition team in 2016; the purging of enemies after 2024; Musk wanting to take control of NASA; reversing woke terminology; bypassing Congress; weaponizing private data; Musk promising pardons to DOGE; dismantling USAID; Vought and knee-capping the NIH; Michael’s scoop that Francis Collins was actually fired; debating the culpability of Bhattacharya; the Clinton-Gore downsizing; fixing the ozone layer; Trump’s sycophants; the horrifying Howard Lutnick; and inspiring stories of civil servants standing up for their role and the rule of law.

Michael Lewis On The Civil Servants Who Defied Trump

The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

Michael Lewis On The Civil Servants Who Defied Trump