Setzeus argues that 90% of people will never properly use seed phrases and hardware wallets, and that services like Privy and Turnkey, which split a key behind an email or phone login, are a good-enough floor for self-custody. Stephan pushes back on what that gives up: verifiability, portability across devices, and a degree of vendor lock-in.

Setzeus (Jesus Najera) runs SetDev, a Bitcoin L2 and metaprotocol engineering and security shop whose biggest client has been Stacks. He built BitScript and founded Cofund, a cross-chain multisig web app aimed at families, fiduciaries, and founders.

The conversation opens on the recent run of hacks, including the Coldcard incident, and his view that the cryptography is not broken but AI has made attacks on everything around it cheaper. They cover Justin Drake's "bunker mode" post, why Bitcoin builders get nerd-sniped by technology over product, why multisig adoption remains small, and whether ETFs are better than nothing for people who won't self-custody.

On Cofund itself, Setzeus explains spending policies built from signer sets, thresholds, and rules on Taproot script paths. He is plain about the limits: on Bitcoin only the signer set is enforced on-chain, spend caps rely on the client without covenants, rotating a signer means moving funds to a new set, and the free tier charges a 1% transaction fee.

Timestamps:

00:00 — Intro

00:37 — From SetDev's L2 Work to Multisig

03:20 — After the Coldcard Hack: Why Self-Custody?

07:56 — Justin Drake's Bunker Mode and ECDSA

10:13 — Are Bitcoiners Bad at Building Products?

15:59 — Seed Phrases vs Privy-Style Key Sharding

20:25 — Trade-offs: Verifiability and Lock-In

25:35 — Recommending Self-Custody After Hacks

30:40 — Families, Fiduciaries, and Founders

34:25 — Spending Policies via Taproot Script Paths

37:24 — Limit: Bitcoin Spend Caps Not On-Chain

39:59 — Key Rotation Means Moving Funds

41:11 — Cofund Pricing and Fees

42:03 — Thesis: Multisig Becomes Joint Accounts

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Seed Phrases vs Key Sharding: Multisig's UX Trade-offs | Setzeus SLP781

Stephan Livera Podcast

Seed Phrases vs Key Sharding: Multisig's UX Trade-offs | Setzeus SLP781