"I always think, 'Jesus, this person could be reading War and Peace, and they picked up this dopey little book.' You know what I mean? So the best thing I could do is be interesting or helpful. I can't be boring, and I've got to try to be helpful," says Austin Kleon, author of Don't Call It Art: 10 Ways to Create Like a Kid Again.

What a pleasure to welcome back Austin Kleon to the show to chat up his new book, his first in seven years, Don’t Call It Art: 10 Ways to Create Like a Kid Again. It’s published by Tarcher. Like Austin’s previous books in Steal Like an Artist, Show Your Work, and Keep Going, this pink wonder is the size of those old double-album CD cases you’d get in the 90s and it’s packed with insights and inspiration Austin learned from his two young boys about being an artist and how to be a creative person in times where creativity is needed more than ever. Fun stuff.

So Austin is a funny, irreverent, sometimes cranky, but almost always inspiring based on his posture in the creative world. The stuff he curates and his generosity in sharing it is a big reason his Substack audience is 309,000 people strong and as of this taping, #5 in art & illustration on the stack.

You can also learn more about him at austinkleon.com where he frequently blogs, though he’s turned the dial down on that a bit in favor of the paid audience of his Tuesday newsletters. I’ve been plugged into the Kleon-verse since about 2014 right when Show Your Work came out and he made appearances on Creative Live with Chase Jarvis, so it’s been cool to see the arc of his career to date.

In this episode, we talk about:

Place and his Ohio roots
The farmer approach
The idea of uncertainty
Knowing less
Getting back to that thing
The most punk thing Metallica did
What if Austin is the apprentice now?
A revelation from Fiona Apple
How his paid newsletter audience helped cook the book
Researching in the open
Knowing what weight class he’s in
Being interesting and helpful
Going full-on Beast Mode
The coveting of creative people
How jealousy shows what’s broken in you
And how his kids brought punk back into his life

If you’re going to pair this episode with anything, check out:

Episode 146: Austin Kleon
Episodes 169 and 433 with Chase Jarvis
Episode 266 with Kristen Radtke
Episode 369 with Akeem S. Roberts
Episode 480 with Dana Jeri Maier
Episode 486 with Roz Chast

Episode 531: Austin Kleon Goes Beast Mode in 'Don't Call It Art'

The Creative Nonfiction Podcast with Brendan O'Meara

Episode 531: Austin Kleon Goes Beast Mode in 'Don't Call It Art'