Drawing from his experience at PagerDuty, Sentry, and now FusionAuth, he joins Robby to explore what happens when software becomes trusted infrastructure. Their conversation touches on API design, naming things, product management, self-hosted software, and why customers rarely upgrade as quickly as we’d like them to.

They also discuss why “boring” software is often the most successful, how engineering teams can better communicate technical debt by connecting it to customer outcomes, and why estimates and scope creep are often influenced as much by human psychology as technical complexity. David shares lessons from supporting long-lived authentication systems and explains why stability, compatibility, and predictable upgrades matter more than constantly shipping flashy new features.

The conversation takes an unexpected turn into naval history, where David draws parallels between successful fleets and successful software teams. Clear incentives, strong communication, and dependable checklists consistently outperform heroics. As AI becomes part of the software development process, those lessons feel even more relevant. Teams that make expectations explicit, align around customer outcomes, and invest in reliable processes will be better positioned for whatever comes next.

Episode Highlights

[00:00:50] What Makes Software Truly Maintainable: David explains why fitness for purpose is at the heart of maintainable software.

[00:04:32] API Design Decisions That Last for Years: David shares lessons from PagerDuty about naming, breaking changes, and the long-term consequences of API decisions.

[00:10:44] What FusionAuth Is and Why Authentication Is Different: David explains FusionAuth and why authentication is a problem many teams are better off not solving themselves.

[00:16:57] The Realities of Maintaining Self-Hosted Software: Supporting self-hosted deployments means balancing upgrades, compatibility, security, and customer control.

[00:24:49] Why Customers Rarely Upgrade the Way Product Teams Expect: David explains why customers often settle into a product’s existing capabilities and may not rush to adopt new features.

[00:27:37] What “Boring Software” Really Means: David makes the case that successful software should focus on making users successful rather than giving teams opportunities to build what they find exciting.

[00:29:56] Connecting Technical Debt to Business Outcomes: David discusses why engineering teams need to connect technical debt to customer outcomes and broader business needs.

[00:39:22] Estimates, Optimism, and Scope Creep: David explores how estimates can become persuasion tools and how optimism can unintentionally expand project scope.

[00:43:15] Naval Warfare Lessons for Software Teams: David draws unexpected parallels between naval history, incentives, communication, and software development.

[00:48:29] Alignment, Checklists, and Operational Excellence: David explains why aligned teams with reliable processes consistently outperform teams that rely on individual heroics.

[00:51:21] AI, Explicit Instructions, and the Future of Software Development: David discusses how AI is changing the skills, expectations, and checklists developers need to work effectively.

[00:53:29] Where to Learn More About FusionAuth: David shares where listeners can learn more about FusionAuth and its work around authentication and compliance.

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David Hayes: Boring Software, Clear Incentives, and Better Checklists

Maintainable

David Hayes: Boring Software, Clear Incentives, and Better Checklists