There are billions of animals living inside America's factory farms right now. Most live terrible, painful lives. Dan Shannon runs the Humane League, one of the largest and most effective animal welfare organizations in the world.

Most organizations like his push people to go vegan—but Dan says that’s a critical error. Meat-eaters might be the most important people in the animal-welfare movement—and should be welcomed.

Michael sits down with Shannon, a vegan of almost 30 years, to unpack why he wants meat eaters in the animal welfare movement and what actually improves animal welfare. They get into how to avoid B.S. labels food producers use to make you think you’re buying ethically, why a phone call to a grocery chain can do more for animals than a perfect diet, the animal welfare law 80 percent of Americans agree on, and how to eat fewer animal products without pretending you'll be perfect. Shannon's message is the one worth keeping: you have more power than you realize.

Go deeper: Protein Myths Part II

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today's episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. Our editor is Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

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The Fastest Way to Help Animals Isn't Going Vegan | Dan Shannon, Humane League CEO

Two Percent with Michael Easter

The Fastest Way to Help Animals Isn't Going Vegan | Dan Shannon, Humane League CEO