Mark Halperin opens the episode with a deep dive into the changing standards of political scandal, from Bill Clinton in 1992 to today’s Epstein fallout. In what he calls a political “Wild West,” Mark explores why some public figures survive controversy while others are taken down, and what 2028 presidential hopefuls should be quietly worried about right now.

Then Andrew Sullivan joins for a candid and wide ranging conversation about Donald Trump’s lasting impact on America. Sullivan argues that beyond policy, Trump has reshaped the country’s political culture, coarsened public discourse, and expanded executive power in ways that may outlast his presidency. He also weighs in on the rise of the so called “Epstein class,” the dangers of extreme wealth concentration in an AI driven economy, and why he believes governments may ultimately be incapable of fully controlling artificial intelligence.

Sullivan closes by reflecting on the future of the Democratic Party, and who he would choose as president if he could hand pick the next leader of the United States.

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Political Scandal Double Standards, the "Epstein Class" Divide, and Trump’s Cultural Impact, with Andrew Sullivan

Next Up with Mark Halperin

Political Scandal Double Standards, the "Epstein Class" Divide, and Trump’s Cultural Impact, with Andrew Sullivan