In this episode of CLSC Dialogues, Major Brennan Deveraux welcomes Colonel Michael Long, the new Director of the China Landpower Studies Center. After discussing COL Long’s thoughts on the new assignment, the conversation shifts to his recent experiences in Korea, offering listeners unique insights from the former Eighth Army G-5 Assistant Chief of Staff for Policy, Planning, and Strategy.

Brennan Deveraux

Hello. You’re listening to CLSC Dialogues, a China Landpower Studies Center (CLSC) production. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the guests, and not necessarily those of the Department of the Army, US Army War College, or any other agency of the US government. I’m talking today to the new director of the China Landpower Study Center, Colonel Mike Long. Colonel Long. Welcome.

Michael Long

Hey, thank you Brennan. I appreciate you hosting this for the team, and it really means a lot.

Deveraux

So, Colonel Long, you’re coming from Korea as the Eighth Army G5. If I could just have you real quick introduce yourself [provide] a little bit about you, and kind of, how you’re coming into CLSC and what that means for the organization.

Long

Hey. Perfect. Yeah, I’m coming from the Pacific. Which makes sense why I’m here at CLSC, the China Landpower Studies Center. And, I’m a functional area 59, just like yourself, so [I’m] focused on strategy and policy, planning. I’m coming here from Eighth Army, I was the G5 there. So, assistant chief of staff for policy, planning, strategy, [and] also worked force management.

So it’s a great opportunity, and I learned a ton in the job.

Deveraux

Great. Well, welcome. I know you’ve already jumped in. So we got you here a couple of months ago. Finally getting you in to talk. Can you talk real quick just to make sure our listeners are caught up? CLSC. What it is and kind of your perspective on what your mission is going forward with the research organization.

Long

Yeah, absolutely. So, we’re a team of, there’s a total of six of us. There’s myself as the director. I’m more focused on blue. Blue across the Pacific. Heavy focus on Korea and Japan. We also have three civilians.

Deveraux

Just to clarify. When you say blue, you mean friendly forces?

Long

I sure do. Yeah. Great. Great point. So that’s really my understanding. My focus here is, you know, when you think of blue and, especially in the landpower perspective, we’re thinking of the Marines out there in mainly Japan and Hawaii. We’re thinking of USARPAC (US Army Pacific Command) and then all the supporting organizations as well as Eighth Army, USFK (US Forces-Korea) it’s portion as well as USFJ (US Forces-Japan) in Japan.

But our CLSC team, back to that, is myself as a director. And we have three civilians who are Chinese subject matter experts. So they have a detailed understanding of what I would call the red perspective, the China perspective. Across really at the strategic level, down to the operational and even the tactical level of understanding of the PLA (People’s Liberation Army) specifically.

And our focus overall is really landpower. We are also lucky enough to have another colonel, Colonel Kyle Markram, who did a podcast with you earlier. He’s a foreign area officer. He served in China. He is also a [Chinese] speaker. And he just got to us from Taiwan. And then we have a visiting professor, also, Doctor Sheena Greitens, and she spends 50% of her time working with us and 50% of her time working for UT (University of Texas), where she does great work out there, has her own podcast, and is quite a prolific publisher.

Deveraux

Yeah, thanks. And I think it’s worth noting that while all of those researchers are looking at China, they all kind of have a little bit of a different lens. So I’ve worked with Brian Carlson, who I know looks at that China-Russia relationship, which is important. And then Jake Rinaldi, who recently went off to Rand, he looked a lot at that, China-North Korea relationship and North Korea’s impact in the region as well.

So when we say, “China experts,” it really goes beyond just, you know, the line I could draw around the country, it’s a regional problem, or a regional challenge, depending on how you view the world.

Long

Yeah, that’s a great point. And you know, our real focus is China and the landpower aspect. But we try to look at the entire INDO-PACOM AOR (US Indo-Pacific Command Area of Responsibility) and we have a focus across the board. But like you’re saying, all of our experts, they’re all you know, we have five Chinese speakers on the team. They really are looking at original source products from China and doing great work for us.

Deveraux

One of the things I heard in a brief one time is you can’t look at China without also looking at Korea. I’d be curious, since we have you coming directly from Eighth Army and looking at the Korea problem, if you’d be open to talk a little bit about the Korea problem set, some of the challenges, and just kind of what’s going [on] out there on the peninsula.

Long

Absolutely. So I served in Korea, in Eighth Army under two CG (commanding generals). The most recent one was Lieutenant General Chris LaNeve, who, his hats in the ring to take on as the vice chief of staff. So he was a great leader to work with, and he really described Korea as the strategic high ground. And I think that’s a good way to kind of think about where Korea is and what it’s what exist. You know, it sits next to a, it’s really in a dangerous neighborhood.

It’s got three authoritarian neighbors, with China, North Korea, and Russia. It also is right next to a key ally, Japan. And then not too far away from Taiwan. So regionally, it’s located in a unique position. And the Army’s very lucky to have that, to be positioned on that strategic key terrain.

Deveraux

I think two things are really interesting about that, that a lot of people don’t think about. First, Russia, a lot of us, when we think about Russia, we very much look at Western Europe, Russia and NATO. But to your point, Russia, not only extends all the way out there, but [it] has been very involved in Asian politics, Asian conflict, for a long time, historically.

And the second point, you say Japan as the ally and yes, it is, but, Korea and Japan actually have a pretty unique historical relationship that I know kind of creates an interesting challenge when we talk about working with Korea and Japan as kind of a, a trilateral relationship.

Long

You’re 100% right. You know, there still are some historic issues from that time. You know, I think it was about 1910 until the end of, until the end of World War II, where Korea was essentially colonized by the Japanese Empire. And there was atrocities committed. Absolutely. And so, there are people who are still alive today who were part of that.

And so, for good reason, there’s some concerns there. But since 2014, you know, the dates we, where we see this, large air defense weapon system called the THAAD (Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense) come in and massive overreaction by China, that was, that really hit South Korea hard. You really see across the South Korean population, the population turn and really, you know, go from a population that has a lot of animosity towards Japan to a lot of animosity towards China.

So if you look at it today, you know, it’s something like 80% of the people still have negative feelings about China. And almost all of the young people today are actually very pro Japan. They like anime. They like, all of the Japanese aspects.

Deveraux

Everyone likes anime. No, that’s real interesting. So I had a chance to go to Korea a handful years ago. Definitely not as long or as important of a task. I more helped move some cargo. But I was there long enough to get my cool little ribbon. And I couldn’t help but think, I was up fairly north and South Korea, up at Camp Casey, and I couldn’t help but think about the historical aspect of actually fighting on the peninsula and looking at the terrain and the mountains and just imagining what it would be to actually have a big land conflict, on the peninsula [of] Korea.

Could you talk a little bit about how you guys think about or how, when you were there, you thought about the terrain and what that really means for a potential conflict in that area?

Long

Absolutely. And, you know, in the Korean War, the terrain and the climate was really an adversary. The coldest battle Americans ever fought was their Chosin, you know, their reports that the temperature dropped to -30, -40 degrees. Absolutely brutal. But it’s a very mountainous terrain, both North and South Korea. And when we think mountainous, we got to think Afghanistan, West Virginia, super-duper mountains everywhere.

It also has a very cold temperatures. It’s a peninsula. But in reality, at least while the armistice is going on, which is the stalemate from the Korean War that we have now, South Korea really is a lot more like an island. And it has a lot of the same obstacles that an island nation like Japan does.

Really. The only way to get in and out of South Korea right now is by airplane or by sea. So SLOCs (Sea Lines of Communication), SPODs (Seaport of Debarkation), APODs (Aerial Port of Debarkation). These are incredibly important when we think about it.

Deveraux

Can you, real quick, for the listeners who aren’t as familiar with the language that is the Army, just break down those acronyms real quick you just dropped on us.

Long

Yeah. Thanks for catching me on that, I appreciate that. So we talk about SLOCs, Sea Lines o...

CLSC Dialogues – Ep 24 – MAJ Brennan Deveraux and COL Michael Long – Meet the New CLSC Director: A Conversation on Korea

CLSC Dialogues

CLSC Dialogues – Ep 24 – MAJ Brennan Deveraux and COL Michael Long – Meet the New CLSC Director: A Conversation on Korea