“I feel numb. It feels unreal to me, having been in Sudan all my life. I have never imagined that it will turn into a war field, it looks like a nightmare. At first that it is just days or months or even a year, but it went on and it kept escalating. Even our homes are no longer habitable. One of my sons went back to have a look and he said you wouldn't even find a spoon for your tea.” James Copnall speaks to Aisha Musa, one of the civilian figures who helped lead Sudan after the overthrow of Omar al-Bashir in 2019.

After popular protests led to Bashir’s fall, Sudan’s presidency was replaced by a Sovereign Council made up of military and civilian representatives. Aisha Musa was one of only two women appointed to the body, an unprecedented position of influence for a woman in Sudan.

But hopes of democratic change collapsed with the outbreak of civil war in 2023 between Sudan’s army and the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces.

Aisha reflects on working alongside the generals responsible for Sudan’s civil war, what it would take to rebuild democracy and her frustration at UK visa restrictions for Sudanese refugees.

The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the BBC, including episodes with Volodymyr Zelensky and António Guterres. You can listen on the BBC World Service on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 0800 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out three times a week on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presenter: James Copnall Producer: Osman Iqbal Editor: Farhana Haider

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(Image: Aisha Musa Credit: Mahmoud Hjaj/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images)

Aisha Musa, former leader: Can Sudan rebuild?

The Interview

Aisha Musa, former leader: Can Sudan rebuild?