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21 May 2026
1h 3m

Notion’s Ivan Zhao: The Refounder

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Long Strange Trip: CEO to CEO with Brian Halligan

The transformation of SaaS companies into AI-native organizations requires a "refounding" mindset and the adoption of agile, "jazz band" operational structures. Moving away from rigid, hierarchical "marching band" models, companies must embrace a technology-first approach where AI facilitates information flow and decision-making. This shift demands a move from predictable "bridge-building" engineering to experimental "beer-brewing" development, where teams prioritize agency, taste, and curiosity over traditional experience. Notion CEO Ivan Zhao illustrates this through his company’s history of radical pivots, emphasizing that founders must possess the conviction to dismantle existing structures when technological paradigms change. By integrating AI into the core of the organization, companies can flatten hierarchies, increase shipping velocity, and maintain relevance in a rapidly evolving market, ultimately treating the organization as a dynamic system rather than a static, top-down entity.

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