Eleanor Catton Has Her Doubts about Certainty

This episode explores the dangers of ideological certainty in public discourse, particularly within the context of social media, using Eleanor Catton's new book, *Birnam Wood*, as a lens. Against the backdrop of the author's concerns about the corrosive effects of Twitter's character limits on nuanced debate, the conversation delves into Catton's novel, which uses Shakespeare's *Macbeth* as a framework to satirize political polarization. More significantly, the discussion highlights how Catton's characters, representing diverse political viewpoints and generations, each embark on a "Macbeth-like" journey towards unwavering conviction. For instance, the author consciously avoids creating clear-cut heroes and villains, forcing readers to confront their own biases and the dangers of self-righteousness. As the discussion pivots to the novel's eco-thriller aspects, Catton emphasizes the difficulty of portraying the climate crisis on a human scale within fiction. The interview concludes by examining the novel's unique capacity to foster empathy and explore morality through inhabiting the perspectives of diverse characters, a stark contrast to the often unforgiving and consequence-free environment of online interactions. Ultimately, the podcast positions the novel as a potential corrective to the limitations of online discourse, offering a space for nuanced exploration of intention, action, and consequence.