Hannah Clarke and her three children were killed in an horrific attack that shocked Australia but for Dave Kramer their deaths were personal, he knew her ex-husband and had witnessed their relationship up close.But Dave's own childhood exposure to domestic violence had blinded him to some of the signs that Hannah and her kids were in danger.

After Hannah's death, Dave began the difficult work of confronting his past and educating himself on how to recognise abuse and have the confidence to speak out and help.

He now helps educate teenagers and young men about respectful and safe relationships and healthy masculinity.If you need to speak to someone 1800respect or 1800 737 732 for the national domestic violence hotlineBeyond Blue on 1300 22 46 36Lifeline on 13 11 14MensLine Australia on 1300 789 978

Further information

smallsteps4hannah

This episode was produced by Jen Leake, the executive producer was Eliza Kirsch.

It explores domestic violence, coercive control, violence against women, violence prevention, safe and respectful relationships, grief, mental health, trauma, drug use, behavioural science, psychology,

To binge even more great episodes of the ‘Conversations podcast’ with Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski go the ABC listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts. There you’ll find hundreds of the best thought-provoking interviews with authors, writers, artists, politicians, singers, psychologists, musicians, and celebrities.

My best friend was killed by her ex-husband — this is the message I want men to hear

Conversations

My best friend was killed by her ex-husband — this is the message I want men to hear