Summary

In this episode, Andy talks with Brett Harned, founder of the Digital PM Community and the Digital PM Summit, and author of Project Management for Humans: Helping People Get Things Done. Brett has spent years coaching project leaders and helping organizations rethink what project management really is. His core conviction: the human side of the work is not a nice-to-have. It is the work.

In this conversation, you'll hear how Brett fell into project management and what early experiences shaped his perspective on people and projects. You'll learn the patterns he sees repeated across teams and industries, practical habits for when projects feel messy or start to drift, and why he believes project management is a leadership role that most organizations still undervalue. Brett also shares his candid take on AI, what it can and cannot do for project leaders, and what advice he would give his younger self.

If you lead projects or teams, whether or not you have a PM title, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

"Often with PMs, it's finding or receiving or feeling the permission to lead like a human instead of like a machine or a robot."
"Projects fail because conversations didn't happen or they happened way too late."
"Project management is a leadership role and too often organizations don't see it as a leadership role the way that they should."
"Project managers are quietly carrying emotional labor that no one really acknowledges."
"You can't earn trust by being invisible."
"The role has become less about task tracking and more about judgment, good communication and trust building."
"If you call people on your team resources, they have every right to call you overhead."
"Slowing conversations down before speeding up the work is like the biggest thing."
"Drift isn't usually about effort. It's about misaligned understanding."
"AI is not going to replace a really good leader."
"AI is great at admin. It's terrible at the leadership stuff. It can't read the room, it can't navigate tension, it can't earn trust."
"Say the thing now. Saying something early is almost always safer than saying it too late."
"The job of a project manager isn't to absorb chaos. It's to make it a conversation."
"Caring about people and building relationships is a skill, and it's a skill that's necessary for this career."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
01:52 Start of Interview
01:57 How Brett Describes What He Does
03:29 When the People Side Became Clear
06:52 Patterns Across Teams and Organizations
10:32 How Expectations of the PM Role Have Changed
12:28 The Impact of Remote and Hybrid Work
15:26 Practices for When Projects Feel Messy
18:20 How to Name What Is Happening Out Loud
21:30 A Question for When Projects Start to Drift
23:43 How AI Will and Won't Change the PM Role
25:50 Practical Ways Brett Uses AI
30:21 Advice to Younger Brett
33:40 How PM Skills Show Up Outside of Work
35:58 The PM Squad and Same Team Partners
38:01 End of Interview
38:22 Andy Comments After the Interview
41:30 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Brett and his work at SameTeamPartners.com and BrettHarned.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

Episode 336 with Clint Padgett. During the interview with Brett, Andy mentioned the weakness of using only percent complete or status colors. That's something Clint and Andy talked about in episode 336.
Episode 99 with Mike Roberto. The topic of conflict came up several times in this discussion. In episode 99, Mike and Andy talk about managing the tension between conflict and consensus. It's a discussion worth hearing, especially if you grew up thinking conflict is mostly a negative.
Episode 500 with Steve Brown, former Google DeepMind futurist. Andy and Steve talk about AI and the future of work, and it's a discussion highly recommended for anyone leading projects today.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Pass the PMP Exam

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Project Management, Leadership, Team Dynamics, Communication, Emotional Labor, Human-Centered Leadership, Conflict Management, AI, Future of Work, Stakeholder Management, Psychological Safety, Remote Work, Project Recovery

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

PPP 502 | When Process Is Not Enough: The Human Side of Project Leadership, with Brett Harned

People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast

PPP 502 | When Process Is Not Enough: The Human Side of Project Leadership, with Brett Harned