This week’s podcast is brought to you by Terawatt – purpose-built charging for autonomous vehicle fleets.

Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them).

In today’s episode, I’m speaking with David Zipper, a Senior Fellow at the MIT Mobility Initiative known for his writing on transportation policy, technology, and urban planning. He often writes about the impacts of autonomous vehicles (AVs) on cities, emphasizing concerns about increased congestion, safety risks from “car bloat”, and the potential for AVs to undermine public transit.

We discuss the evolution of the ridehail industry and its broader impact on cities and mobility. David shares his perspective on the early days of autonomous vehicles, highlighting both their promise and the risks they pose — particularly around congestion and the potential to draw riders away from public transit.

He breaks down why cheaper AV rides could worsen traffic, the role that policy tools like bus rapid transit, congestion pricing, and deadheading fees could play in addressing it, and whether robotaxis can meaningfully improve road safety. We also touch on the shared responsibilities of governments and AV companies, potential synergies between AVs and transit, and how cities can better design pickup and drop-off zones to serve riders, cyclists, and pedestrians alike.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction to David Zipper

(02:29) David’s new transportation podcast

(03:39) Overall view of the ridehail industry and its impact on society

(07:30) How do you feel about AVs at this early stage?

(09:34) The biggest potential negative impact of AVs (Congestion)

(11:45) Should ridehail be blamed for congestion in cities?

(15:20) How price reduction in AVs could potentially affect congestion

(17:14) What are the solutions to congestion in the advent of AVs?

(24:11) Can robotaxis reduce road fatalities?

(30:40) The role of Government and AV companies in road safety

(31:01) AVs vs Public Transit

(34:24) Possible synergies between AVs and Transit

(37:13) Improving pickup and drop-off points for ridehail/AVs

(39:30) Cyclists and Pedestrians in the Age of AVs

(43:00) Conclusion and final thoughts

Notes/Links:

* Check out David’s website (link) to join his newsletter and explore his past writing.

* David’s new podcast: Look Both Ways with David & Wes (link).

* David’s Vox Article: A self-driving car traffic jam is coming for US cities (link).

Designing Charging Hubs for Autonomous Fleets

We are excited to partner with Terawatt, one of the leading providers of charging infrastructure. To learn more about Terawatt’s network of AV charging hubs and track record of 99%+ uptime, reach out to Logan Szidik at lszidik@terawattinfrastructure.com

- Harry

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David Zipper on AVs, Congestion, and the Future of Cities

The Driverless Digest Podcast

David Zipper on AVs, Congestion, and the Future of Cities