In this conversation, I sit down with Stephen Roach on the Makers and Mystics podcast to explore why our stories feel exhausted — and what that reveals about our cultural moment. We talk about the end of the post–World War II narrative, the collapse of the hero (and even the anti-hero), and how storytelling has drifted. We also discuss fairy tales, monsters, AI, and the future of art.

Let me know what you think in the comments and come join us at the Breath and the Clay conference, a creative arts gathering in Winston Salem, NC March 20-22, 2026: http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com/

YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/Xbr6XQlspGQ

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Another opportunity to come together and meet is the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, myself, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Buy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale. Don't miss out: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
Hope to see you there.

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Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:21 - Intro music
01:47 - Introduction
03:08 - Narrative exhaustion
04:38 - End of the WW2 narrative
08:40 - Fairy tales
11:09 - Jonathan's retelling
13:17 - Art and ideology
17:41 - Complexity in religious art
21:32 - Trust in the audience
24:33 - Participation in art
28:27 - Distorted retellings
32:30 - Resistance of tyranny
35:28 - Identity and form
37:16 - Limitation and contemporary art
41:34 - AI art
44:11 - Human connection
45:30 - Making space

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

437 - Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics)

The Symbolic World

437 - Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics)