Summary

In this episode, Andy talks with Steve Jaffe, author of The Layoff Journey: From Dismissal to Discovery. Steve has been laid off four times over the course of his career, and those experiences shaped a thoughtful, practical framework for navigating the emotional and professional aftermath of job loss.

Andy and Steve explore why layoffs feel so personal even when we are told they are not, how identity often gets tangled up with job titles, and why the emotional response to a layoff closely mirrors the stages of grief. Steve explains why those stages are not linear, what denial, pain, and negotiation really look like in practice, and why trying to rush straight to acceptance can backfire.

You will also hear practical advice for leaders who must conduct layoffs, as well as guidance for professionals who worry they might be laid off in the future. From preserving dignity in difficult conversations to preparing financially, emotionally, and professionally before uncertainty hits, this discussion offers insight for both sides of the table.

If you are navigating uncertainty, supporting others through change, or simply want to be better prepared for whatever comes next, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

"I wanted to give people a roadmap to process their layoff and the grief of their layoff in months rather than years."
"One of the things that makes losing a job difficult is we tie our identity up in what we do."
"And then in that period, before you've landed your next job, you're in this messy middle of Who am I?"
"Define yourself not by what you do, but by who you are and what you bring to the table."
"I've seen people be named Employee of the Year in January, and by June they're getting laid off."
"Layoffs don't measure your worth. They measure a company's priorities."
"The stages of grief are not linear. You can feel all of them in one day."
"Your job title is not who you are."
"Acceptance can become a way to skip discomfort instead of dealing with loss."
"If you don't process the grief, it shows up later as baggage."
"Dignity matters in the first minutes of a layoff conversation."
"You want to build your network before you need it."
"The person you were before a layoff will not be the same person after."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
01:45 Start of Interview
02:00 From First Layoff to Fourth: Taking It Personally
02:50 How the Layoff Process Has Changed Over Time
06:52 The Messy Middle Between Job Loss and What's Next
10:40 Why the Stages of Grief Apply to Layoffs
14:07 What Denial Looked Like in Steve's Experience
17:19 Balancing Emotional Honesty and Professional Reputation
22:08 The Quote That Opens the Book
23:00 Can You Jump to Acceptance Too Quickly?
24:58 When Past Layoffs Create Baggage at the Next Job
26:42 Advice for Leaders Who Have to Do Layoffs
28:55 Handling Performance-Based Separations with Integrity
30:40 How to Prepare Now If You Worry About Being Laid Off
32:46 End of Interview
33:33 Andy Comments After the Interview
37:37 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Steve and his work at TheSteveJaffe.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

Level Up Your AI Skills

In the outtakes, Andy and Steve talk about how AI is changing the workplace. If you want to be better prepared for an AI-infused future, check out our AI Made Simple course.

Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks!

Pass the PMP Exam

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Leadership, Layoffs, Career Transitions, Organizational Change, Emotional Intelligence, Resilience, Identity at Work, Grief, Workforce Planning, Change Management, Professional Development

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

PPP 495 | Your Layoff Survival Playbook: Lessons from The Layoff Journey, with Steve Jaffe

People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast

PPP 495 | Your Layoff Survival Playbook: Lessons from The Layoff Journey, with Steve Jaffe