“I wanted to show that you could be human and could also be kind and decisive and a mother, imperfectly but still, I think, do a reasonable job.”

BBC presenter Kylie Pentelow speaks to Dame Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand’s former Prime Minister about the importance of empathetic leadership in the time of populism and strongman politics. In 2017 Ardern became the youngest Prime Minister in the world at the time, and only the second ever to have a baby whilst in office. She was praised for her humane approach and leadership through crises such as the 2019 Christchurch terrorist attack that saw 51 killed. She swiftly brought in gun laws and reached out to the Muslim community targeted in the attack.

In her 5 years in politics she was a champion of climate change and LGBGTQ and indigenous rights, but she was also criticised for some of the harsh lockdown measures that her government enacted during the pandemic.

Since leaving politics, Jacinda Ardern has been engaging in global work focused on empathy in leadership, combatting climate change and the prevention of online extremism.

She’s written books, including one about being a working mother, and she now stars in a documentary about her life entitled simply, Prime Minister. She’s currently a distinguished fellow and part of the World Leaders Circle at Oxford University.

Thank you to the Woman’s Hour team for its help in making this programme. The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the BBC. You can listen on the BBC World Service on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 0800 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out three times a week on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presenter: Kylie Pentelow Producers: Dianne McGregor, Farhana Haider & Clare Williamson Editor: Justine Lang

Get in touch with us on email TheInterview@bbc.co.uk and use the hashtag #TheInterviewBBC on social media.

(Image: Jacinda Ardern Credit: Marvin Joseph/The Washington Post via Getty Images)

Jacinda Ardern: why world leaders need empathy

The Interview

Jacinda Ardern: why world leaders need empathy