When Nikolai’s assault unit was told to advance on a Ukrainian position, he decided he’d rather blow up his own arm than continue to fight. Nikolai and two other former Russian soldiers tell The Times about their harrowing experiences at war– and why they decided to flee.

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Guest: Jack Clover, assistant foreign news editor, The Times and The Sunday Times.

Host: Luke Jones.

Producer: Micaela Arneson.

Read more: ‘I took a grenade blast to escape’: Russian deserters speak out

Listen more: A new peace plan, and a critical moment for Zelensky

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‘I took a grenade blast to escape’ - Russian deserters speak to The Times

The Story

‘I took a grenade blast to escape’ - Russian deserters speak to The Times