Today we have a bonus episode for you, featuring our very own Francis Lam.

How We Survive is an award-winning podcast from Marketplace about the messy business of climate solutions. From the glitz and glam of Miami, to the punishing Arizona desert, to a sinking island that our national security depends on, every season takes listeners on an adventure. We’re finding the innovative, surprising and occasionally disturbing ways that people are navigating solutions to a changing climate.

In this episode of “How We Survive,” host Amy Scott is joined by “The Splendid Table” host Francis Lam for a cultivated meat taste test. Plus, Francis shares his go-to recipes for climate-friendly proteins.

Deep in the halls of the engineering school at Columbia University, professor Hod Lipson and his former student Jonathan Blutinger are reimagining how meat is made. In 2022, they developed a device that maps the texture of meat.

“It's a machine that can poke steak at a bunch of different points and create these high-fidelity texture maps and see more clearly, you know, the toughness of different parts,” explains Blutinger. Lipson adds, “we tried to capture quantitatively, how hard is it to cut it with a knife? How hard is it to poke it with a fork? How hard is it to chew?” They sold that device to a fake meat company, ReDefine Meat, which 3D prints steak.

It was during this time that Blutinger came up with a framework for thinking about meat: The uncanny valley of meat. “The uncanny valley is, a thought that a Japanese researcher came up with years ago, where the closer we get to mimicking human likeness with robots, the more we tend to be irked by them,” explained Blutinger. He said the same phenomenon happens when we eat fake meat that’s trying to look, taste and feel like the real thing.

“People who are meat eaters are used to the texture, the feeling, the flavor, all the sensory aspects of any meat they've had from the hundreds of thousands of times they've tried it. So as soon as they try something that's trying to mimic that, they're extra cautious,” said Blutinger.

We hear all the time that one of the best things we can do for the climate as individuals is eat less meat. But 3D printed meat alternatives are not on the market in the U.S. yet. So the “How We Survive” team got our hands on another new food tech that some argue could allow people to have their steak and eat it too: Cell cultivated meat (which is real meat grown from cells instead of living, breathing animals).

Does cell cultivated meat pass the uncanny valley?

Bonus Episode: How We Survive's The Uncanny Valley of Meat

The Splendid Table: Conversations & Recipes For Curious Cooks & Eaters

Bonus Episode: How We Survive's The Uncanny Valley of Meat