Ep. 194 (Part 2 of 2) | Frank Ostaseski, Zen hospice pioneer, founder of the Metta Institute, and author of The Five Invitations, speaks with us about the profound wisdom and potential for transformation that is unleashed in the process of dying. “Suppose we imagine death as an unprecedented opportunity for transformation, he says, adding, “so why wait until we are dying?” In attending over a thousand people in hospice, Frank has often seen them experience a real sense of discovery in the dying process; there is a time of acceptance, a time of letting go, and then a deeper state of surrendering to something larger. The walls that prop up the self start tumbling down, Frank explains, and a larger connection emerges that is always there.

Frank would like to see the process of dying brought out of the closet—shared about, learned from, and not reduced to a medical event. It’s important to meet death with don’t-know mind and trust the dying process to teach each of us what we need to know, he explains. And some of what we can do right now to open ourselves to the wisdom of death is pay attention to how we end things, and to how we love. This far reaching discussion delves gently into the divine mystery of death and dying, touching on radical acceptance, transcending self, don’t-know mind, everyday compassion and boundless compassion, grief as an expression of love, and creating rituals to mark this passage and all passages. We are left feeling unexpectedly comforted and liberated at the same time. Recorded December 5, 2024.

“Grief is a way we continue to love someone… a natural response to the experience of love.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

What qualities do people need to be with the dying? (00:27)
Boundless compassion needs everyday compassion (02:09)
Don’t wait to tell people that you love them (03:55)
Grief is a way we continue to love someone, a natural response to the experience of love (06:06)
There are subtler experiences after surrender: tracking consciousness as the brain stops (06:38)
Gratefulness and a deep sense of belonging to something larger (09:52)
Cultivating don’t know mind; meeting dying with don’t know mind (12:47)
Terminal lucidity (17:49)
Practices we can do now: how do we meet endings? (19:54)
Impermanence is not later; it’s in this very moment (22:35)
Cultural changes Frank would like to see (26:15)
Proximate karma (30:00)
Better drugs than sedation: psychedelics could help us meet the profundity of the experience (30:37)
Bathing the body after death: a wonderful tradition that can fundamentally shift our relation with death (33:45)

Resources & References – Part 2

(Part 2) Learning From Death and Dying: Lessons for All of Us From Zen Hospice with Frank Ostaseski

Deep Transformation

(Part 2) Learning From Death and Dying: Lessons for All of Us From Zen Hospice with Frank Ostaseski