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In this episode, I sit down with Robert Brunner — the design mind behind Beats by Dre, former Apple design director, and founder of Ammunition — to unpack what it really takes to build enduring, emotional, and market-shifting products. We explore the tension between risk and restraint, the power of story in industrial design, and what separates mediocre products from cultural icons.

Robert shares hard-won wisdom from 40+ years in the field, working with legends like Jimmy Iovine, Paula Scher, and the teams behind Apple and Beats — and how he now helps startups design with both craft and business outcomes in mind.