The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

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Tom Ryan is the head wrestling coach at Ohio State University. In college, he wrestled for perhaps the greatest wrestling coach of all time, Dan Gable, at Iowa, where he was a two-time Big Ten champion and a two-time NCAA All-American. As a coach at Ohio State, he’s won numerous national coach of the year honors, has coached more than 75 All-Americans, and led the Buckeyes to a national championship in 2015. We filmed this in his office in Columbus, OH, after spending the morning watching some of his championship wrestlers practice. It was one of the coolest days I’ve had in a long time.

Notes:

“My first workout after driving from Syracuse to Iowa was a soul-cleanser. I collapsed in my car outside the arena. I couldn’t stop crying.”
- "It was a line in the sand moment for me. Where are you going or staying? Because I could have turned around, I could have went right back. But it was this sense of knowing that you were in the right place."
- It’s amazing that Tom decided to leave Syracuse with no guarantee of even making the team at Iowa, let alone a scholarship. He shows up on day 1, and Coach Gable didn’t even know who he was! Crazy. And then he goes on to earn his spot and become an All-American.
Competitive Spirit from Early Age: "There's certainly an element of competitive spirit... even in second grade, we were on the playground... if you lose, you're fighting somebody. You just wanna win, you wanna win everything you do."
Why go to Iowa?
- The Will to Be Great – "I wanted to be elite at something. And by trial and error, it was almost trial and error... I wasn't gonna end my career with not knowing how high I could climb."
Key Learnings from Dan Gable:
- Emotional Control – "He wasn't a yeller. He wasn't a screamer... The reason why he didn't need to yell was his competence."
- Focus on Situation, Not Person – "It was never personal... He would focus on the situation and not you as a person. You never felt attacked. It was just bluntly, your single leg needs improvement."
- Balance of Freedom and Accountability – "Too much freedom. Not good... You can drive someone crazy with discipline and rituals and rules... It's just this happy medium."
One of the most emotional moments in my 10+ years of recording this podcast, Tom shared the story of the day his 5-year-old son, Teague, had a heart attack and tragically passed away. The room went silent. And Tom went deep into the impact that it has had on him and his family. This is something I cannot imagine happening. I am grateful that Tom was willing to share and be so vulnerable. I love Tom Ryan, and I am lucky to have been in Columbus with him.
The interview with Ohio State: "I wasn't their first choice... But ultimately, I was a leader that had learned. I learned under the best." He prepared extensively, attacked his weaknesses proactively, and wasn't afraid to discuss his faith.
Chosen vs. Unchosen Suffering – The concept of "chosen suffering" came after experiencing unchosen suffering (losing Teague). "Wrestling has never brought me to my knees... I never got there in wrestling... but when I lost Teague in 2004, that I referred to as unchosen suffering."
Chosen Suffering = Deep Love – "Chosen suffering is a fancy word for love because you will suffer the most for the things you love the most." The willingness to endure difficulty stems from profound love for what you're pursuing.
Traits of Elite Performers:
- Ungodly Effort – "In all studies ever performed on elite behavior... one is an ungodly effort. And I think effort stems from... effort over time is a byproduct of deep love."
- High Capacity to Learn – Elite athletes have exceptional skill development abilities
- Living in Truth – "The capacity to live in truth. To really be honest with yourself and be okay with it... really strong self-assessment."
- Daily Discipline – "The discipline to do it daily... to work on your shortcomings and really be good enough to look in the mirror and say, I love you, but you got some problems."
Being Coachable – "Most people wanna be coached until they're getting coached." Great performers actively seek feedback, while good ones want to be left alone.
Three-Pronged Leadership Philosophy:
- Example – Walk the walk and display the behaviors you want to see
- Truth in Love – "Too much truth can demoralize someone... too much love, you're patronizing me. Stop it. Gimme the truth."
- Embracing Pain and Suffering – "We're gonna make decisions that weren't right... and we're gonna accept them and we're gonna grow from them."
The 3 Success Pillars:
1. Your Mind - Internal you. Where your thoughts originate.
2. Your Relationships - Who you allow to influence your decisions.
3. Your Environment - The setting that will build you or break you.
The world doesn’t care what we’re after, nor does it care about our principles. It doesn’t care about you or me, nor will it change for us. It doesn’t owe us anything. The world is heading in a direction, spinning on its axis, and there’s little we can do to change that. What we can change, however, is what we do. We can control our direction. We must continuously develop our core and worldview to help us navigate the temptations of the world.
What happened on the morning of April 23, 2024? Coach Ryan had been on his way to OSU for an early morning workout with colleagues when his SUV, traveling at about 65 miles per hour, struck the semitrailer.
- Physical Trauma vs. Emotional Trauma – "When we lost Teague, I was healthy, I was physically healthy, I was mentally healthy... when I hit this tractor trailer at full speed... the physical trauma that occurred was surreal. And I wasn't ready."
- "I went into a terrible depression... I was sad when I lost my son, but I wasn't depressed... But in this, I was suicidal for a little bit." Coach Ryan openly shared his mental health struggles with family and got help.
The #1 indicator of sustained success is emotional control.
Two-word mantra — keep working.
Physical Suffering as Mental Training – "Every single time I bike, there comes a moment in the bike ride where I realize I'm a sissy... there's a humbling, there's humility piece that you get from suffering."
Choose the Hard Thing - "I can always come up with an excuse why I'm not gonna do squats... And then I have to pause and say, dude. Get under the bar... getting under the bar... builds confidence for everything else in life." (that was from me)
Discipline as a Superpower – "Discipline is a superpower. It's available to everybody." The transferable skill of choosing difficulty when you don't want to.

637: Tom Ryan (Ohio State Wrestling Coach) - Chosen Suffering, Emotional Control, Responding to Tragedy, Success Pillars, and Learning from Dan Gable

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

637: Tom Ryan (Ohio State Wrestling Coach) - Chosen Suffering, Emotional Control, Responding to Tragedy, Success Pillars, and Learning from Dan Gable