When you have a system where ministers almost never understand their portfolios, civil servants change jobs every few months, and MPs don't grasp parliamentary procedure even after decades in office — is the problem the people, or the structure they work in?

Today's guest, political journalist Ian Dunt, studies the systemic reasons governments succeed and fail.

And in his book How Westminster Works ...and Why It Doesn't, he argues that Britain's government dysfunction and multi-decade failure to solve its key problems stems primarily from bad incentives and bad processes.

Even brilliant, well-intentioned people are set up to fail by a long list of institutional absurdities that Ian runs through — from the constant churn of ministers and civil servants that means no one understands what they’re working on, to the “pathological national sentimentality” that keeps 10 Downing Street (a 17th century townhouse) as the beating heart of British government.

While some of these are unique British failings, we see similar dynamics in other governments and large corporations around the world.

But Ian also lays out how some countries have found structural solutions that help ensure decisions are made by the right people, with the information they need, and that success is rewarded.

Links to learn more, video, highlights, and full transcript.

Chapters:

Prisoner of those ghosts (00:00:00)
We're hiring (00:00:39)
How Ian got obsessed with Britain's endless failings (00:02:46)
Should we blame individuals or incentives? (00:05:04)
The UK left its allies to be murdered in Afghanistan (to save cats and dogs) (00:10:42)
The UK is governed from a tiny cramped house (00:19:35)
“It's the stupidest conceivable system for how to run a country” (00:25:10)
The problems that never get solved in the UK (00:29:54)
Why UK ministers have no expertise in the areas they govern (00:33:12)
Why MPs are chosen to have no idea about legislation (00:45:48)
Is any country doing things better? (00:47:54)
Is rushing inevitable or artificial? (00:59:00)
How unelected septuagenarians are the heroes of UK governance (01:02:42)
How Thatcher unintentionally made one part of parliament work (01:12:28)
Maybe secrecy is the best disinfectant for incompetence (01:15:58)
The House of Commons may as well be in a coma (01:24:15)
Why it's in the PM's interest to ban electronic voting (01:34:53)
MPs are deliberately kept ignorant of parliamentary procedure (01:37:33)
“Whole areas of law have fallen almost completely into the vortex” (01:42:17)
What's the seed of all this going wrong? (01:45:40)
Why won't the Commons challenge the executive when it can? (01:54:50)
Better ways to choose MPs (02:00:14)
Citizens’ juries (02:08:56)
Do more independent-minded legislatures actually lead to better outcomes? (02:12:22)
"There’s no time for this bourgeois constitutional reform bulls***" (02:18:30)
How to keep expert civil servants (02:24:16)
Improving legislation like you’d improve Netflix dramas (02:36:15)
MPs waste much of their time helping constituents with random complaints (02:41:39)
Party culture prevents independent thinking (02:45:32)
Would a written constitution help or hurt? (02:50:17)
Can we give the PM room to appoint ministers based on expertise and competence? (02:53:31)
Would proportional representation help? (02:58:01)
Proportional representation encourages collaboration but does have weaknesses (03:00:31)
Alternative electoral systems (03:09:24)

This episode was originally recorded on January 30, 2025.

Video editing: Simon Monsour
Audio engineering: Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong
Music: Ben Cordell
Camera operator: Jeremy Chevillotte
Transcriptions and web: Katy Moore

#216 – Ian Dunt on why governments in Britain and elsewhere can't get anything done – and how to fix it

80,000 Hours Podcast

#216 – Ian Dunt on why governments in Britain and elsewhere can't get anything done – and how to fix it