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In this conversation, Ross talks to Steve Bannon, the chief strategist from Donald Trump’s first term and part of the original MAGA movement. Despite his clashes with new factions emerging in the Republican Party, Bannon argues that Trump is still central to advancing a populist agenda.

Editors’ note: This episode originally aired on the “Matter of Opinion” podcast on Jan. 31, 2025.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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