Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder)

This podcast features an interview with Ivan Zhao, co-founder and CEO of Notion, focusing on his entrepreneurial journey and the development of Notion. The conversation covers Notion's initial struggles ("lost years"), the pivot to a productivity tool, and the importance of balancing personal vision with market demands ("sugar-coating the broccoli"). Zhao emphasizes the significance of lean operations, iterative development (including discarding code multiple times), and finding the right balance between personal values and business needs. A key takeaway is his advice for founders to embrace resetting and reframing their approach when necessary, focusing on creating a product that genuinely adds value.