The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

#330: Deconstructing The Art & Science Of Interviewing With Jay Acunzo

Full show notes can be found at www.LearningLeader.com

This is a special bonus episode focusing on deconstructing the art and science of interviewing. You will hear learning happening in real time. Jay Acunzo and I go a meta-level to better understand how to better improve our conversation ability, how to be better in an interview. "Interviewing is a skill that enhances your life in a pleasant and unexpected way." This is focused on how you can ask better questions, be more interesting and more interested, and become a better conversationalist.

Notes:

The meta level of deconstructing the process of making the work is rare...
"I experience the most flow when it's quiet, nitty-gritty work. Those minute are profoundly rewarding for me."
What makes a great interview?
An open loop -- Start telling the story, but wait to close the loop until later to build intrigue...
The difference between a narrative style show and an interview getting to know someone:
- A story is three parts - The intent of the story: The "Joseph Campbell Heroes Journey" 1) Status Quo 2) Conflict 3) Resolution
- Bucket of questions:
  - "Tell me about X..."
  - "How did it make you feel?"
  - The analysis and the reflection
Change your mindset: "You're not an interviewer, you're a dance partner."
- "The only thing that matters is that you lead. Everything else is little subtle moves to get people to go to where you want to go."
"It's not a constant march forward. Instead, think of it like a dance. There are some steps back, steps forward, steps to the side — all packaged together in one coherent experience, with lots of zig-zagging and subtle steps inside those boundaries."
Open ended questions: “Tell me about X” gets you story details, while “how did it feel when” gets you key moments of reflection and analysis. Both are crucial.
Clip #1 -- JJ Redick
- He says “great question” — what would make someone interviewed as often as a pro athlete say that?
- How to prep for an interview for someone who is interviewed all the time?
  - Built a basic rapport leading up to the interview -- Discussed sports, restaurants, podcasting, interviewing. Developed a "friend" level of communication
    - Create an environment where the guest wants it to be a great show
- Good follow up questions: Ask for an example... Asking, "How did that make you feel?" "What's your process?" --> Then be a deep, thoughtful listener to ask a follow up.
- Stay on the same level with your dance partner - Don't be a guest "worshiper"
- When following up, there are a few things you can do: 1) Distill 2) Disagree 3) Ask the next question...
- During an interview, the best question you can ask: "How did that make you feel?" It enables them to get in an emotional lane (away from canned responses)
- Testing the levels on the microphone -- Don't waste that opportunity. Engineer the guest, the human -- You need them to feel like we're hanging out and excited about the interview. Make it fun. What to ask instead: "I'm going to check your levels, do you have any pets at home?" "What would be your last meal on earth?" -- It helps people break out of their corporate drone mode. The question is about the person, on a human plane.
- Create a safe space for them to share their truth. "I'm not a journalist, I'm a conversationalist."
Clip #2 -- Adam Savage
- How did he get on the show? Working with a PR firm to book a guest -- A great PR person like Brent Underwood only recommends guests that are a good fit for the show.
- Ask questions that you are genuinely curious about -- I am curious about someone's process and it's always led me to a useful follow up...
- The issue is sometimes a "process" oriented question is the guest can answer with a generality... How to wiggle out of that?
  - Look at the acknowledgement section of their book to get ideas for important people/events in their life to ask about...
- Mental Heuristics: Tell me about, 30,000 feet, go to a specific example... The third question is "Putting them in a box:" -- "
From Jay: Heuristics to tell great AUDIO stories:
- Tell me about...
- How did you feel when (or, how did that feel?)
- Can you give me an example?
- (Superlatives) Best, worst, funniest, scariest, hardest, least certain, favorite, etc...
- (Dig for emotional moments)
Clip #3 -- Brian Koppelman
- How to handle nerves -- Work to get settled in. Get through the initial conversation point...
- Give people a genuine compliment for why you like their work -- Tell people why their work helps you
Hidden Gems:
- Interplay between your intent for the work and your framework for it:
  - "My goal is to engineer an outcome, but I have an intent I don't want to become The Bachelor in Paradise."
    - Have self and situational awareness. We carry with us good intent to serve the audience. Don't let the framework or engineering supersede the original intent.
- The two types of interviews: 1) The person, their story... 2) Their content
  - The best conversations are able to weave both together and smoothly bounce back and forth
  - Learn about the person AND learn about the topic that he has mastered -- Master that dance between both -- I need to give you something that is going to make you better.
Use the "Get To Know You Document"
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