Episode 167 of the podcast features a discussion between Chris Brennan and Adam Elenbaas about the problem of twins in natal astrology, and how astrologers deal with the birth charts or horoscopes of two people who were born at the same time.
The premise of natal astrology is that the alignment of the planets at the moment a person is born have something significant to say about a person’s character and future, but this premise then naturally raises the question of what about people who were born around the same time?
This comes up most commonly in the horoscopes of twins who are born to the same parents within a few minutes of each other, although the question is also applicable to time twins, who are people that were born around the same time to different parents.
During the course of this episode we discuss this issue and try to explore some possible solutions, both from a technical and a philosophical perspective.
Below you will find the show notes, followed by links to download or stream the recording of this episode of the podcast.
Twins Show Notes and Episode Outline
Here are the show notes, which provides an outline of most of the major points we touched on during the course of the episode:

* One of the most common and longstanding critiques against natal astrology.

* Variations of the criticism have been in circulation for over 2000 years.

* We will address philosophical, conceptual, and technical points related to this issue.
* Defining the basic parameters of the twins criticism:
* Natal astrology was developed in Mesopotamia by the 5th century BCE.

* Premise is that alignment of planets at birth indicates future of native.
* Naturally raises the question of what about people born at the same time?

* Twins who are born close together from the same mother.

* Twins look the same, but have different lives.

* Time twins, who are born to separate parents but around the same time.

* This has been a longstanding critique of natal astrology for the past 2000 years.

* Earliest surviving criticism is Cicero (1st century BCE).

* “the fact that men who were born at the very same instant, are unlike in character, career, and in destiny, makes it very clear that the time of birth has nothing to do in determining man’s course in life”.

* Saint Augustine had a similar criticism but went into more detail.

* Ptolemy may have tried to respond to some of the earlier critiques.

* Ptolemy says that astrology is not the only factor, but you also have to take other factors into account in order to understand the context of the chart.

* Gender, race, geography, whether the chart of a turtle, etc.

* Nigidius Figulus was said to have responded with the potters wheel analogy.

* Point is that sometimes even what seem like small changes make difference
* Ascendant and Midheaven move relatively rapidly.

* Important to discern whether the chart really is exactly the same or not first.

* Even two people born close together in time may not have exactly the same chart

* Technical answers to this issue based on chart changes:

* Sometimes a few minute time difference leads to major changes.
* What are some of these major changes?

* Ascendant can change signs

* Changes ruler of the Ascendant
* Changes all of the houses in whole sign & equal houses

* Midheaven and other angles can change signs
* Planets becoming more or less angular.
* Sect
* Moon can change signs
* Aspects can perfect, move from applying to separating.

The Problem of Twins in Natal Astrology

The Astrology Podcast