Most energy professionals believe the data will win.

John Szoka did too.

After a career in the military and time in the North Carolina legislature, Szoka followed the facts and became a clean energy advocate. But what he learned next is what matters.

Data might change your mind.

It doesn’t change most people’s.

In this special conversation, **Jigar Shah and I co-host a discussion with Szoka on how decisions actually get made in energy—from state legislatures to local communities—and why storytelling, trust, and timing often matter more than the numbers.

This is the first episode in a set of conversations we recorded live at the UNC Cleantech Summit. Additional interviews from this series will be released across both SunCast and Jigar’s Energy Empire podcast—including a conversation with Tom Fanning (CEO, Southern Co) also dropping this week.

To hear the full set, you’ll want to follow both shows.

You can find Energy Empire here: https://www.energyempire.fm/episodes

Key takeaways from John:

🔹 The real reason utilities struggle to adapt to new technology

🔹 Why storytelling beats data when it comes to changing minds

🔹 How to combat misinformation in energy at the local level

🔹 How to meet communities where they are and build trust

Hit play to understand what it really takes to move energy forward in today’s political and economic climate.

Are there other technologies you’ve scouted on the frontlines of the Clean Energy Revolution that you think we should be covering here on SunCast?

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If you want to connect with today's guest, you’ll find links to their contact info in the show notes on the blog at https://suncast.media/episodes/.

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921: Data Won’t Move Lawmakers—Stories Will | John Szoka & Jigar Shah

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