Minority rule – by which a few get to decide the outcomes for many – is eroding American democracy at nearly every level, according to veteran journalist Ari Berman, author of Minority Rule: the Right-Wing Attack on the Will of the People―and the Fight to Resist It.

In this episode, host Kai Wright talks to Berman about how the U.S. has been in a push-and-pull between oligarchy and democracy since 1787 when the Founding Fathers put systems in place, like the Senate and the Electoral College, to prevent the will of the people from having too much influence in national government. Berman explains how these systems have laid the foundation for modern day partisanship, making the future of America’s democracy seem increasingly shaky as right-wing political leaders engage with authoritarian ideals, and as the will of the people is curtailed by the wants, fears and needs of white, wealthy Americans.

Berman is the national voting rights correspondent for Mother Jones and a reporting fellow at Type Media Center. His previous books include Give Us the Ballot: The Modern Struggle for Voting Rights in America and Herding Donkeys: The Fight to Rebuild the Democratic Party and Reshape American Politics.

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Notes from America airs live on Sundays at 6 p.m. ET. The podcast episodes are lightly edited from our live broadcasts.

Can American democracy ever be truly democratic?

Notes from America with Kai Wright