14. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

In this episode of Empire, William Dalrymple and Ali Ansari delve into the life and legacy of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, a pivotal figure in the creation of Pakistan. They discuss Jinnah's early life, education, and transformation from a secular lawyer to a leader advocating for Muslim rights, highlighting his complex relationship with Gandhi and the Indian National Congress. The conversation explores key events such as the Nagpur Congress meeting, the Lahore Declaration, and Direct Action Day, leading up to the partition of India. Featuring historian Ayesha Jalal, the episode examines Jinnah's motivations, the escalating communal violence, and the circumstances surrounding the partition, questioning whether it was inevitable. Jalal provides insights into Jinnah's vision for Pakistan, his disappointment with its current state, and the ongoing debate surrounding his legacy.