Former Singaporean diplomat Bilihari Kausikan joins Jim and Ray to discuss the implications of Donald Trump’s second term and his “America First” policies for Asia.

Bilihari emphasizes that a focus on domestic policy is not unusual for U.S. presidents, and that Asian countries have learned to adapt practically to American policy changes. In fact, he believes that the current administration’s policies are closer to America’s historical norm than many realize.

Ultimately, he believes that American stability is crucial for Asian prosperity, and that Asia needs continued U.S. military presence.

According to Bilihari, Asians have different expectations for the so-called rules-based order than westerners, and tend not to be as sensitive to violations of norms. He says that Trump’s emphasis on hard deterrence and “peace through strength” can be more effective in Asia than appeals to values.

Bilihari notes that Singapore in particular values economic rules over political ones.

The conversation turned to Taiwan, which Bilihari believes has suffered from a sense of entitlement to U.S. support, spending insufficiently on its own defense and lacking strategic focus.

For the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), Bilihari explains that its main objective is to manage relations between the member states, and that is where it is most effective. He believes that it must continue to adapt to changing realities to stay relevant.

Finally, Bilihari explains his famous assertion that ASEAN is a cow, not a horse.

Read Bilihari Kausikan’s January 2025 article in Foreign Affairs magazine, “Who’s Afraid of America First?”

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Our podcast is produced by IEJ Media, sharing news that matters on statecraft & instruments of national power. Follow IEJ Media on X (@iejmedia), and follow our producer Ian Ellis-Jones on X (@ianellisjones) or on LinkedIn.

This podcast is sponsored by BowerGroupAsia, a strategic advisory firm that specializes in the Indo-Pacific.

Why Should We Care Why Asia’s Not Afraid of “America First”?

Why Should We Care About the Indo-Pacific?