Mike Pesca, host of “The Gist” joins Chuck Todd for a wide-ranging conversation about the state of media, technology, and trust at the end of 2025—and where things may be headed next. They dig into how legacy media is being reshaped by new owners, shrinking business models, and audience capture, with a close look at CBS, the Ellisons, and whether disruption is a threat or a lifeline for traditional news brands. Pesca also reflects on the rise of nonprofit journalism, the limits of AI in reporting, and why Congress has largely abdicated its role in regulating both media and tech.

The discussion then turns to the growing unease around AI, gambling, and prediction markets, from bipartisan support for getting smartphones out of schools to fears that unregulated betting is distorting journalism, sports, and public life. Pesca and Todd explore why optimism around AI is collapsing, how insider information can be exploited in everything from sports gambling to political markets, and why many of today’s “innovations” feel eerily similar to past technological panics. The throughline: institutions are lagging behind rapid change, and the cost of that delay is showing up everywhere—from newsrooms to classrooms to democracy itself.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Mike Pesca joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:30 Rundown of Mike’s many “hustles”

03:15 Is the information ecosystem better or worse at the end of 2025?

04:30 CBS News under Bari Weiss is now selling a different product

06:00 Legacy media could benefit from some disruption

06:45 Weiss gave up working for the Salzbergers to work for the Ellisons

07:30 There’s no money in producing network news

09:45 There was audience capture at the New York Times

11:00 A boring president will make the Ellisons care less about CBS

13:00 David Ellison isn’t ideologically MAGA or even a Republican

14:00 Silicon Valley is less ideological, just want less regulation

14:45 Ellisons are treating CBS as part of their lobbying budget

15:45 A huge part of 60 Minutes popularity is that it airs after football

16:30 CBS has brands that will survive even if the network doesn’t

17:45 We’re a few years away from local TV affiliates going a-la-carte

19:00 Channel numbers are meaningless to younger audiences

19:30 Non profits like ProPublica are doing some of the best journalism

20:45 AI can’t replace people in the journalism space

21:45 NOTUS is the only organization covering DC locally

23:15 Historically, American media has been partisan

24:00 Big newspapers should have two editorial sections

26:30 Imagine if Bezos built an “everything” newspaper like he did Amazon

28:00 AI transition will be painful, fear of AI displacement will dominate

28:45 New polling shows huge drop in optimism surrounding AI

30:15 Sam Altman shocked the world by saying “Please regulate me”

31:15 We need more visibility into how AI actually works

32:00 The regulators are always too old & removed from new tech

32:45 Congress has willingly abdicated their regulatory role

34:30 Employees at AI companies express worry it could go very wrong

35:30 Getting tech/smartphones out of schools has bipartisan agreement

37:15 There have always been panics about major tech change

38:15 Sports gambling without regulation has been a disaster

40:45 Athletes can easily fix a player prop to make money

42:15 Online casinos should have never been allowed to exist

44:15 Insider info can easily been cashed in on prediction markets

46:15 Will insider trading laws now affect copy editors at publications?

47:30 Betting has drastically affected coverage at ESPN

49:00 College football playoff selection is totally subjective

51:30 Potential fixes to college football playoff selection

55:00 Will prediction markets remain legal?

56:45 Pandemics make society do crazy things

57:45 Online casinos will likely become illegal in the coming years

1:00:00 The states didn’t roll out marijuana legalization the right way

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Interview Only w/ Mike Pesca - The Media Meltdown: AI, Billionaires, and the Collapse of Trust

The Chuck ToddCast