In this special episode, Adam Butler and Ben Hunt join Matt Zeigler to unpack one of the most charged debates in markets and economics today: whether our official statistics still reflect lived reality. Building on Mike Green’s work and Adam Butler’s essay The Bureau of Missing Children, the conversation moves beyond the technical definition of poverty to a deeper idea of economic precarity, the growing gap between what we measure and what people actually experience. Together, they explore debt, housing, childcare, labor mobility, AI, and the erosion of meaning in economic language, while wrestling with what policy, community, and human-centered solutions might look like in a world that increasingly feels unstable.

Main topics covered

Why the debate should focus on precarity rather than poverty
The disconnect between inflation statistics and lived experience
How debt, housing, childcare, and education drive economic insecurity
The idea of a participation budget for modern family formation
Why labor mobility has broken down since the financial crisis
How asset prices and credit intensify risk for households
The role of grandparents and off-balance-sheet support in the economy
Darwin’s wedge, positional goods, and rising costs of everyday life
The impact of AI, technocracy, and anti-human incentives
Centralized versus decentralized solutions to today’s economic challenges
What it means to carry the fire and preserve human-centered values

Timestamps
00:00 Introduction and the emotional roots of the precarity debate
02:00 Poverty versus precarity and what we are really measuring
06:30 Technocrats, narratives, and the limits of economic statistics
09:00 Personal experiences with precarity and debt
15:00 The Bureau of Missing Children and family formation economics
21:00 Modeling household income and participation budgets
25:50 Rising costs of childcare, housing, and everyday life
33:00 Darwin’s wedge and positional competition
36:45 Debt, housing, and labor immobility
40:00 Grandparents, unpaid care, and off-balance-sheet subsidies
46:30 How today differs from 40 or 50 years ago
49:40 Labor mobility as a lost engine of opportunity
55:00 Policy paths, mission-driven economics, and decentralization
01:11:00 Visionary leadership versus bottom-up solutions
01:15:50 Carrying the fire and preserving meaning
01:17:30 Where to follow Adam Butler and Ben Hunt

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