Full Episode - Trump Is Exhibiting 25th Amendment Behavior + How To Get Money Out Of Politics For Good

Chuck Todd takes a hard look at Donald Trump’s increasingly egregious behavior and the growing questions surrounding his cognitive fitness for the presidency, sparked by a recent post that crossed a line even for many on the right. He asks what would happen if any other public figure behaved this way, why similar concerns about Biden’s decline were openly discussed while Trump’s are often brushed aside, and whether the country is getting a straight story about the former president’s health. With no clear guardrails, no apparent filters, and staff either unable or unwilling to intervene, the episode raises uncomfortable but urgent questions about judgment, accountability, and risk.

Then, Jeff Clements, CEO of American Promise joins Chuck for a deep dive into one of the most consequential—and misunderstood—threats to American democracy: money in politics. Clements argues that today’s campaign finance dysfunction isn’t a failure of legislation but a court-created crisis, tracing how Supreme Court rulings turned money into speech, opened massive loopholes, and shifted lawmaking power from Congress to the judiciary. From McCain-Feingold to super PACs, the conversation unpacks why courts have repeatedly blocked reform efforts and why the problem isn’t free speech itself, but the unchecked amplification that allows wealth to drown out everyone else.

The discussion turns to whether a constitutional amendment is the only viable path forward, how such an amendment could reclaim authority from the courts, and what it would take to build support across 38 states. Drawing parallels to the Gilded Age and the founders’ obsession with corruption, Clements explains why Americans broadly understand the system is broken—even if it’s hard to make campaign finance a voting issue. In a moment of democratic crisis, he makes the case that meaningful reform is still possible, and that restoring political equality could become a rare point of unity in a deeply polarized era.

Finally, Chuck gives his ToddCast Top 5 book recommendations for political junkies and answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Chuck Todd’s introduction

02:45 Money in politics has gotten out of control

03:45 North Carolina senate race will likely cost a billion dollars

04:30 One outside group can spend more than both campaigns combined

05:00 An amendment is the only way get campaign finance past judiciary

05:45 The judiciary has legislated campaign finance from the bench

07:30 Does the latest outrage over Trump’s Reiner tweet mean anything?

08:30 Trump’s post was a bridge too far for even some on the right

09:00 If any of us posted that, it would cost us jobs, relationships & more

10:30 At what point is Trump’s behavior 25th amendment type alarming?

11:15 Either his staff said something & he ignored it, or nobody said anything

12:15 Biden’s mental decline was apparent

14:00 Judging Trump’s mental decline is harder due to erratic behavior

17:15 It’s possible Trump feared one of his supporters murdered Reiner

18:00 Having a president with no filter should concern every American

19:15 You have to wonder if Trump is all there, all the time

21:00 We aren’t getting a straight story about Trump’s health

22:30 Concerns people on the right had about Biden, are happening w/Trump

23:45 Trump’s behavior is bad for the country & the Republican party

25:00 Voters will punish the GOP if they feel Trump’s decline was covered up

26:45 This story is only going to get worse as time goes on

28:30 New polling out on voters opinions & thoughts on corruption

29:15 What voters think corruption actually means

32:15 The voters are more sophisticated on corruption than politicians are

33:30 Large majorities thought government serves the rich & businesses

35:00 There’s an appetite for government & democracy reform

36:15 Majority of independents saw corruption in both Trump & Biden admins

37:30 Framing issues through lens of corruption could resonate

38:45 Connecting affordability to corruption could be very effective

46:00 Jeff Clements joins the Chuck ToddCast

47:15 Constitutional amendment the only way to get money out of politics?

48:30 Campaign finance problems are a “court created crisis”

50:00 The Supreme Court created all the campaign finance loopholes

50:45 If money wasn’t speech, is McCain-Feingold good legislation?

51:30 Money will always “find a way” in politics

54:45 Courts have stood in the way of campaign finance reform

55:15 How to word an amendment to take this power away from judiciary

59:00 Is there a first amendment argument against amplification?

1:00:00 Money in politics isn’t a free speech issue, it’s an amplification issue

1:04:30 Maine had a $5000 limit on PACs, was knocked down by courts

1:05:15 Courts ruled that money can’t corrupt when it’s clear they can

1:06:45 Court could rule that limits apply to PACs & campaigns, or rule no limits

1:07:45 The court has created many contradictions in campaign finance

1:08:45 A court ruling won’t fix the problem, an amendment would

1:09:15 Most campaign finance law has been written by judiciary

1:11:00 It’s difficult to make campaign finance a voting issue

1:13:15 The American people understand that the system is corrupted

1:17:15 There are many similarities between the Gilded Age & now

1:18:45 We’ll should see see several amendments in the next decade

1:20:15 Need 38 states for amendment, what’s the biggest hurdle?

1:21:30 A states rights argument would be very persuasive to legislatures

1:23:00 Free speech doesn’t mean you get to drown out everyone else

1:26:00 Money equaling speech has made money equal power

1:29:00 The founders were obsessed with corruption, led to the revolution

1:30:00 Limiting campaign finance is perceived to help the left over the right

1:33:15 Could a presidential candidate galvanize the debate?

1:33:45 The president & governors have no constitutional role in the process

1:36:00 The goal is to leave a well-informed electorate & building support

1:37:15 Are there any super wealthy donors who support these reforms?

1:39:15 This is a crisis for our democracy but could create an opportunity

1:41:00 Chuck’s thoughts on interview with Jeff Clements

1:42:30 ToddCast Top 5 books for your reading list

1:43:00 #5 The Drift by Kevin Hassett

1:46:30 #4 Mark Twain by Ron Chernow

1:48:30 #3 The Barn by Wright Thompson

1:50:00 #2 107 Days by Kamala Harris

1:52:30 #1 Fateful Hours by Volker Ullrich

1:55:00 Ask Chuck

1:55:15 Appreciation for the quick reaction videos/pods

1:58:15 Omission of “Citizen Kang” from Simpsons time machine segment

2:00:00 Could a Democrat win the Florida senate race?

2:04:00 Why don’t reporters challenge Trump to his face about his behavior?

2:10:45 Why haven’t Democrats leaned into breaking up big monopolies?

2:15:45 How has interview prep changed from MTP to now?

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Full Episode - Trump Is Exhibiting 25th Amendment Behavior + How To Get Money Out Of Politics For Good

The Chuck ToddCast