What happens when cheap solar flips the script on climate sceptics? Can pumped hydro really deliver the long-duration storage we need? And is “hope” a dangerous comforter in the race to net zero?

In this season opener of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Malcolm Turnbull — former Prime Minister of Australia, lawyer, statesman, energy investor, and climate champion. From leading Australia through fierce political battles over climate policy to now spearheading renewable projects through Turnbull Renewables, he offers a rare insider’s perspective on the global clean energy transition.

Turnbull and Liebreich explore the clash between optimism and realism in climate action: why cheap solar is reshaping politics, the promise and pitfalls of green hydrogen, and whether pumped hydro could be the long-duration storage solution the world needs. Along the way, they reflect on U.S. politics under Trump, trade negotiations without American leadership, and why “hope is not a strategy” when it comes to energy security.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.

Links and more:

Snowy 2.0: https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/snowy-20/about/
International Hydropower Association: https://www.hydropower.org/
Green Trade or Green Trade-Off - Ep52: Tony Abbott
How Big Things (Should) Get Done - Ep128: Prof. Bent Flyvbjerg
Is The Tide Turning On Hydrogen? Ep210: Andrew Forrest
Ya Basta: https://liebreich.com/214-2/
The Spycatcher Trial: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/14/malcolm-turnbull-spycatcher-lawyer-prime-minister

Malcolm Turnbull: Clean Energy Culture Wars and The Race To Build More Storage | Ep 222

Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change