New @greenpillnet pod out today! 🌐
In this episode of the Network Nations mini-series, hosts Primavera De Filippi explore the idea of entanglement the voluntary interdependencies that turn loose networks into cohesive, resilient communities.

They're joined by Jon Hillis (Cabin / Neighborhood Village Project) and Timour Kosters (EdgeCity), two builders experimenting with new forms of communal life. Together they discuss how DAOs, pop-up cities, shared rituals, physical infrastructure, and collective work can create the deeper social ties needed for future network nations.

If you're curious how civil society can organize beyond states and startups through kinship, cooperation, and shared purpose this conversation is foundational.

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@timourxyz
@JonathanHillis
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🌐 Timestamps

00:00 – Cold Start
01:02 – What are Network Nations? Communities as shared commons
02:20 – Theme of the episode: entanglement as voluntary interdependence
03:26 – Introducing guests: Jon Hillis (Cabin) & Timour Kosters (EdgeCity)

Origins & Stories
05:08 – John's story: leaving Instacart to build a village in Texas
07:15 – The Cabin experiment and why the DAO eventually shut down
09:00 – Governance stalemate: misaligned token-holder incentives
10:39 – Timur's story: Zuzalu, EdgeCity & pop-up civic experiments
12:56 – Why pop-up villages unlock deeper, experimental governance

Community, Infrastructure & Entanglement
14:55 – Community vs infrastructure: which comes first?
17:19 – Why communities deepen through building things together
19:15 – Doing as a means to the end: community itself
20:40 – Co-creation at EdgeCity: rituals, workshops, shared work

Citizens vs Users
23:04 – The identity question: are members users, consumers, or citizens?
25:05 – Why financial incentives conflict with community values
27:26 – The tension between startups, DAOs & community networks
29:46 – Events create more value than the event business model

The Commons & Institutional Dualities
31:29 – Government vs startups: opposite systems, opposite incentives
33:41 – Entanglement as an alternative to monitoring & sanctions
35:42 – Why scale changes everything in community coordination
38:04 – Social debt & reciprocity as natural entanglement

Examples of Entanglement in Practice
40:01 – Why people volunteer without financial incentives
42:23 – Imagined communities: identity across thousands
44:31 – Social entanglement vs economic & structural entanglement

Levels of Entanglement
46:38 – The four layers: social → cultural → economic → structural
48:35 – Why "forced entanglement" risks cult dynamics
50:55 – Healthy communities rely on voluntary exit
53:05 – Entanglement as a continuum: user → participant → citizen

Future Mechanisms
54:58 – What future entanglement systems might look like
57:04 – Missing pieces: identity layers, governance, shared resources
59:02 – Why place is the strongest form of entanglement

Closing
01:00:16 – Explaining entanglement to a 5-year-old: interdependence
01:01:42 – Final words from John & Timour

Network Nations Ep:4 Entanglement: Building Voluntary Interdependencies

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