The ‘Shadow President’ Dismantling The Government

In this episode of Fresh Air, Terry Gross interviews Andy Kroll, an investigative reporter for ProPublica, about Russell Vought and his influence on the Trump administration. Kroll discusses Vought's role as the director of the Office of Management and Budget, his efforts to dismantle federal agencies, his radical constitutionalist views, and his involvement in Project 2025. The conversation covers Vought's strategies for limiting the power of Congress, his desire to fire federal workers, his use of budget freezes and rescissions, and his vision for a Christian nation. Kroll emphasizes Vought's goal of creating chaos within the federal government and his long-term impact on public service and the balance of power in the United States.