In this episode, CJ sits down with Brandon Sullivan, CFO at 2X, to unpack one of the most enduring tensions in business — the uneasy relationship between finance and marketing. From the myth of clean ROI to the chaos of martech spend, Brandon explains why measuring marketing impact is far harder than most CFOs think, and how spreadsheet logic can lead to bad decisions. He shares what it’s like to run finance inside a 1,200-person marketing org, why cutting too deep in downturns can backfire, and what it takes to actually bridge the gap between teams that speak different languages. Along the way, he reveals lessons from scaling 2X across time zones, building global reporting rhythms, and redefining how finance and marketing can finally pull in the same direction.

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LINKS:

Brandon Sullivan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonsullivan2x/

2X: https://2x.marketing/

CJ on X (@cjgustafson222): https://x.com/cjgustafson222

Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com

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RELATED EPISODES:

From Facebook’s Hypergrowth to Daffy’s Disruption: A CFO’s Playbook for Saying Yes

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00:00) Preview and Intro

(00:02:28) Sponsor – Aleph | Rillet | Fidelity Private Shares

(00:05:55) Behind Enemy Lines: Finance Meets Marketing

(00:07:00) Why CFOs and CMOs Clash

(00:08:12) The Myth of Marketing ROI

(00:10:19) Why Marketing Is So Hard to Measure

(00:11:23) The Single Source of Truth Problem

(00:15:29) Sponsor – Mercury | RightRev | Tipalti

(00:19:35) The Three Buckets of Marketing Spend

(00:21:26) The Long-Term Cost of Cutting Program Spend

(00:23:27) How AI and ChatGPT Are Changing Marketing Attribution

(00:25:43) Building a Modern Finance Team

(00:27:55) The First-Time CFO Learning Curve

(00:31:05) From Solo Operator to Scaled Finance Org

(00:32:41) Why Weekly Reporting Beats Monthly Reviews

(00:40:10) Working with Private Equity Partners

(00:43:43) The Founding Story of 2X

(00:48:12) Running a Global Team Across Time Zones

(00:54:00) Long-Ass Lightning Round

(00:57:00) Advice to Younger Self

(00:58:58) Finance Stack and Craziest Expense Story

(00:59:58) Credits and Sign-Off

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SPONSORS:

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Rillet is the AI-native ERP modern finance teams are switching to because it’s faster, simpler, and 100% built for how teams operate today. See how fast your team can move. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/metrics

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Mercury is business banking built for builders, giving founders and finance pros a financial stack that actually works together. From sending wires to tracking balances and approving payments, Mercury makes it simple to scale without friction. Join the 200,000+ entrepreneurs who trust Mercury and apply online in minutes at https://www.mercury.com

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#RunTheNumbersPodcast #FinanceVsMarketing #CFOInsights #MarketingROI #BusinessStrategy

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cjgustafson.substack.com

Finance vs. Marketing: Who’s Really Right About ROI? | Brandon Sullivan

Run the Numbers