What really defines a cult—and why do smart, well-intentioned people get caught up in them? In this episode, Michael Shermer sits down with cult intervention specialist Ashlen Hilliard to explore the psychology of high-control groups and the people drawn into them. Her work has been featured in prominent media outlets like Hulu, NewsNation, HuffPost, and BET+.

In 2022, Ashlen founded People Leave Cults, offering intervention and recovery resources for survivors and concerned loved ones. As one of the few Cult Intervention Specialists in the country, Ashlen consults with a team of experts to develop personalized intervention strategies for families that have a loved one involved in a range of coercive situations, including cults, gangs, domestic violence, trafficking, and violent extremism. She also served as the Director of Events for the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), organizing regional and international events, workshops, and conferences for those affected by the cult phenomena and psychological manipulation.

She is touring the Fall of 2025 in these cities for her show https://www.psychologyofcults.com/:

October 8 Jacksonville, FL Florida Theatre
October 9 Newberry, SC Newberry Opera House
October 11 Huntsville, AL Mars Music Hall
October 12 Bristol, TN Paramount Bristol
October 14 Charleston, WV Maier Foundation Performing Hall
October 16 Stroudsburg, PA Sherman Theater
October 17 Morristown, NJ Mayo Performing Arts Center
October 18 Stamford, CT Palace Theatre
October 19 Concord, NH Chubb Theatre
October 21 Buffalo, NY Electric City
October 22 Columbus, OH The Southern Theatre
October 24 Pontiac, MI Flagstar Strand Theatre
October 26 Cincinnati, OH Bogart's
October 28 Chicago, IL City Winery
October 29 Indianapolis, IN Clowes Memorial Hall
October 30 Cleveland, OH Connor Palace
November 23 Livermore, CA Livermore Valley Performing Arts Center

Why No One Thinks They’re in a Cult

The Michael Shermer Show