Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that — Jacob Kimmel | Dwarkesh Patel

In this interview podcast, Dwarkesh Patel interviews Jacob Kimmel, president and co-founder of New Limit, about the science of epigenetic reprogramming for anti-aging purposes. They discuss why evolution didn't optimize for longevity, covering hazard rates, kin selection, and optimization constraints. Kimmel explains New Limit's approach to reversing aging by epigenetically reprogramming cells using transcription factors, addressing potential challenges and the need for AI models to navigate the complexity of the genome. The conversation explores delivery methods for these therapies, the potential for long-term benefits, and the economic implications of extending healthy lifespans, including the role of pharmaceutical companies and the future of healthcare spending.

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Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that — Jacob Kimmel

Dwarkesh Patel

Evolution and the Optimization of Lifespan and Intelligence

Kin Selection, Optimization Constraints, and the Challenge of Longevity

The Relative Ease of Intervention in Aging and the Mystery of Antibiotics

Gene Duplication, Evolutionary History, and the Monocausal Explanation for Aging

Epigenetic Reprogramming and the Challenge of Cell State Modification

The Necessity of AI Models in Reprogramming Cell State

Predictive Models and Transcription Factors as Evolution's Levers

Attention Mechanisms in Biology and Pathogen Utilization of Transcription Factors

The Challenge of Targeting Transcription Factors and the Promise of Nucleic Acid Medicines

The Future of Delivery: Engineering Cells for Targeted Payload Release

The Interconnectedness of the Body and the Potential for Broad Benefits from Targeted Therapies

Payload Size, Dosing, and the Potential for Long-Lasting Effects

Non-Human TFs, Elastin, and Eroom's Law

General Purpose Models in Biotech and the Challenge of Target Identification

The Virtual Cell and the Analogy to LLMs

Perturb-Seq and the Technical Challenges of Scaling Up

The Vertical Integration of New Limit and the Proprietary Nature of Biological Data

IP Enforcement, Reimbursement Models, and the Future of Healthcare Spending

The Potential for De-Aging Technology to Drive Down Healthcare Spending

Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that — Jacob Kimmel

Dwarkesh Patel

00:00Evolution and the Optimization of Lifespan and Intelligence

Evolution and the Optimization of Lifespan and Intelligence

07:30Kin Selection, Optimization Constraints, and the Challenge of Longevity

Kin Selection, Optimization Constraints, and the Challenge of Longevity

12:31The Relative Ease of Intervention in Aging and the Mystery of Antibiotics

The Relative Ease of Intervention in Aging and the Mystery of Antibiotics

18:16Gene Duplication, Evolutionary History, and the Monocausal Explanation for Aging

Gene Duplication, Evolutionary History, and the Monocausal Explanation for Aging

24:02Epigenetic Reprogramming and the Challenge of Cell State Modification

Epigenetic Reprogramming and the Challenge of Cell State Modification

30:37The Necessity of AI Models in Reprogramming Cell State

The Necessity of AI Models in Reprogramming Cell State

37:21Predictive Models and Transcription Factors as Evolution's Levers

Predictive Models and Transcription Factors as Evolution's Levers

42:23Attention Mechanisms in Biology and Pathogen Utilization of Transcription Factors

Attention Mechanisms in Biology and Pathogen Utilization of Transcription Factors

48:01The Challenge of Targeting Transcription Factors and the Promise of Nucleic Acid Medicines

The Challenge of Targeting Transcription Factors and the Promise of Nucleic Acid Medicines

53:40The Future of Delivery: Engineering Cells for Targeted Payload Release

The Future of Delivery: Engineering Cells for Targeted Payload Release

59:00The Interconnectedness of the Body and the Potential for Broad Benefits from Targeted Therapies

The Interconnectedness of the Body and the Potential for Broad Benefits from Targeted Therapies

1:03:44Payload Size, Dosing, and the Potential for Long-Lasting Effects

Payload Size, Dosing, and the Potential for Long-Lasting Effects

1:07:03Non-Human TFs, Elastin, and Eroom's Law

Non-Human TFs, Elastin, and Eroom's Law

1:11:26General Purpose Models in Biotech and the Challenge of Target Identification

General Purpose Models in Biotech and the Challenge of Target Identification

1:17:16The Virtual Cell and the Analogy to LLMs

The Virtual Cell and the Analogy to LLMs

1:23:05Perturb-Seq and the Technical Challenges of Scaling Up

Perturb-Seq and the Technical Challenges of Scaling Up

1:27:27The Vertical Integration of New Limit and the Proprietary Nature of Biological Data

The Vertical Integration of New Limit and the Proprietary Nature of Biological Data

1:32:13IP Enforcement, Reimbursement Models, and the Future of Healthcare Spending

IP Enforcement, Reimbursement Models, and the Future of Healthcare Spending

1:37:35The Potential for De-Aging Technology to Drive Down Healthcare Spending

The Potential for De-Aging Technology to Drive Down Healthcare Spending