For this week's interview, we've got a special treat. I'm talking with two legends in the self-taught developer community.

Danny Thompson worked for 10 years at a Tennessee gas station, frying chicken for people to eat, sometimes working 80 hour weeks just to provide for his family. And yet, Danny had ambition. He taught himself to code using freeCodeCamp. He built his network through local tech events. And eventually, he landed his first job as as software developer. He's since worked at tech companies like Google.

Leon Noel grew up with everyone telling him he had to become a doctor, lawyer, or dentist. He skipped college, taught himself programming, and had a successful exit with a startup. Leon then turned his attention to helping folks who were struggling during the pandemic. He started 100Devs, a charity which has helped thousands of people learn to code.

Danny and Leon run the Programming Podcast which you can find in the podcast player freeCodeCamp iPhone or Android app, along with other podcasts we recommend.

The following 45 minute conversation is almost entirely focused on the developer job market - perfect if you're looking to getting a new job.

You'll learn common misconceptions people have about Résumés, Recruiters, Applicant Tracking Systems, Knock Out Questions and more. We also talk about the Commit Your Code conference happening September 25 and 26 here in Dallas. Tickets are super cheap and all proceeds go to charity. I'll be there and I hope you'll be there, too.

A massive thank you to every single on of the 10,706 kind folks who support freeCodeCamp through a monthly donation. Join these kind folks and help our charity and our mission by going to https://donate.freecodecamp.org/

Links from our conversation:
- The Commit Your Code Conference: https://www.commityourcode.com/
- The Programming Podcast (listen in the freeCodeCamp iPhone / Android app)
- Danny on X/Twitter: https://x.com/DThompsonDev
- Leon on X/Twitter: https://x.com/leonnoel

News items:

freeCodeCamp just published a handbook that will help you learn about AI-assisted coding, straight from a software engineer who's maintained freeCodeCamp's platform and infrastructure for the past 7 years. Mrugesh was initially skeptical of AI tools but has recently used them to great effect. And he wrote this handbook to help you do the same. He says experienced developers can complete tasks faster with AI assistance. But they need to know how to use these tools effectively. And they also need strong foundational programming skills. This handbook is a no-nonsense guide to emerging tools and best practices. (full-length handbook): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/how-to-become-an-expert-in-ai-assisted-coding-a-handbook-for-developers/

freeCodeCamp also published a course on building your own AI agent from scratch using Python. You'll implement the agentic loop. Then you'll endow your agent with the ability to read, write, and execute code. Finally, you'll supervise your agent as it goes through and makes fixes to an intentionally buggy codebase. (3 hour YouTube course): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/build-an-ai-coding-agent-in-python/

The freeCodeCamp community also just published our first-ever Mandarin Chinese course. It's aimed at absolute beginners. It'll teach you fundamentals of the language and help you prepare for the standardized HSK exam. As you may recall, we've published beginner courses on Spanish and German as well. We eventually hope to have courses on a wide range of world languages at many levels of proficiency. I started learning Mandarin 23 years ago and I can tell you this course just scratches the surface. But it should be a good starting point for you if you're curious. (11 hour YouTube course): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/learn-mandarin-chinese-for-beginners-full-hsk-1-level/

Learn the graph algorithms that power Netflix's video recommendation engine and Google Maps' routing logic. This Python tutorial will introduce you to Breadth-First Search, Depth-First Search, Dijkstra’s Algorithm, and other key computer science concepts. It includes plenty of code examples to help you understand these powerful programming structures. (20 minute read): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/graph-algorithms-in-python-bfs-dfs-and-beyond/

This week I read a pretty well researched article on the role of AI codegen in actually getting things done as a developer. The author has more than 25 years of experiencing building software. And he argues that if AI tools really gave devs a big productivity boost, we should see this in the numbers. Specifically, shovelware, which is essentially fast, cheap software projects. And he says we don't really see this. Github repo creation is flat, apple and android app store registration is flat, domain name registration is flat. So he argues these tools aren't actually helping people write code faster and it's just marketing hype. I definitely recommend you read the article after this podcast and I've included a link to it in the description. https://mikelovesrobots.substack.com/p/wheres-the-shovelware-why-ai-coding

Since we're likely in a AI investment bubble, this week's song of the week is a "Bubble Life" from Squarepusher's 2006 album Hello Everything. Some amazing synth patches in this, and a tasty bass solo with tons of ghost notes and a heaping serving of chromaticism. Link's in the description. Listen to it after the podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUpSAzUN5Vg

#188 Playing the Developer Job Search Game to Win in 2025 with Danny Thompson & Leon Noel

The freeCodeCamp Podcast