What does it mean to build a workplace culture that people want to join? In this episode, Kevin talks with Jennifer Moss about this important leadership question. They discuss the societal shift in how we view work, the psychological idea of mortality salience, and how these concepts are influencing employee expectations today. Jennifer also shares the basic elements of a strong work culture: inspiring hope, creating purpose, and fostering genuine community, whether your team works remotely, in a hybrid setting, or in-person. Additionally, Jennifer challenges the one-size-fits-all approach to office mandates and presents an alternative idea of the workplace as a “third place” where creativity and collaboration can flourish.

Listen For

00:00 Introduction and why culture matters more than ever
01:24 About Kevin’s book “Flexible Leadership”
01:49 Introducing guest Jennifer Moss
02:48 The new book: “Why Are We Here?”
03:05 What is a discovery writer?
04:56 Journey from burnout to culture
05:56 Career pivots and “life is short”
07:02 Mortality salience and identity at work
08:06 How the pandemic reframed our view of work
08:40 Everyone has agency in shaping culture
09:50 Managing up and generational empathy
11:18 Foundations of culture: hope, purpose, and community
13:08 Losing joy at work and the great detachment
14:16 Time poverty vs. remote work
15:06 The office as a third place
16:23 Contradictions in return-to-office policies
17:56 Productivity vs. presence and the AI contradiction
19:15 Data-driven leadership and ignoring the data
20:04 The chapter on “Freedom”
21:20 Women opting out and redefining freedom
22:41 Leadership betrayal and lack of trust
24:09 Focusing on goals, not hours
25:15 Supporting employees who finish early
25:38 AI increasing workload
26:32 Leaders need real conversations about AI’s impact
27:02 Culture can change in 20 minutes
27:56 Weekly manager-employee check-ins
28:25 Jennifer’s favorite morning ritual with her daughter
29:53 What Jennifer is reading: The Tell by Amy Griffin
31:07 Where to find Jennifer and her book
31:52 Kevin’s closing challenge: “Now What?”

Jennifer's Story: Jennifer Moss is the author of The Burnout Epidemic, which tackles employee burnout and was named one of Thinkers50's "10 Best New Management Books for 2022." Her latest book is WHY ARE WE HERE?: Creating a Work Culture Everyone Wants. She is an international speaker, award-winning journalist and author, workplace culture strategist, and co-founder of the Work Better Institute, a global workforce policy think tank. She is a nationally syndicated radio columnist and writes for Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and Fortune. Jennifer has been recognized as a Canadian Innovator of the Year and an International Female Entrepreneur of the Year, and is the recipient of a Public Service Award from the Office of President Obama.

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Flexible Leadership is every leader’s guide to greater success in a world of increasing complexity and chaos.

Book Recommendations

Why Are We Here?: Creating a Work Culture Everyone Wants by Jennifer Moss
The Tell: A Memoir by Amy Griffin

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