Kelli and Nolan critically examine employee engagement surveys, arguing they're performative exercises for disconnected executives rather than meaningful tools for understanding and improving workplace sentiment.

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Dave Margulius discussing Quizlet's remarkable 18-year journey from a bootstrapped startup founded with teenage co-founders to a globally successful education platform, sharing insights on building company culture, managing young talent, transitioning from founder to board member, and maintaining mission-driven values while achieving sustainable growth.

*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co

For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/

HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

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KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN

Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/

Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/

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LINKS:

Related article:https://www.businessinsider.com/att-ceo-memo-workplace-loyalty-dead-employees-job-security-2025-8

Nolan's Linkedin post:https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nolan-church_when-can-we-eliminate-employee-engagement[…]m=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAWcjXgBb3Jw6dX16PD9lRJSsxfgqVAqZLw

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(00:50) The 73% Response Rate That Changed Nothing

(02:18) Devil's Advocate: Why Companies Think They Need Surveys

(03:34) The Second Order Problem: Getting Data, Doing Nothing

(04:30) "Get Out of the Ivory Tower"

(05:28) Exit Interviews vs. Real Conversations

(06:41) The Employee Perspective: Anonymous Survey Skepticism

(07:37) The Performative Dance Exposed

(08:43) Surveys as Substitutes for Real Leadership

(09:13) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview

(11:41) Better Alternative: Executives in the Dirt

(13:25) The Venture Capital Leadership Model

(14:49) The Small Minority That Actually Cares

(15:40) The Semantics Problem: Stop Saying "Engagement"

(17:00) Wrap

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

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