In this episode, Evan Ratliff, journalist and creator of the podcast Shell Game, shares the wild and personal story behind his experiment in AI voice cloning. What began as curiosity turned into a six-month dive into building an AI version of himself—one that could answer phone calls, conduct interviews, and even fool friends and family. From scamming the scammers to testing AI therapy, Evan walks us through what it’s like to put a synthetic version of yourself into the world and watch how people respond.

The conversation explores the uneasy collision of identity, automation, and ethics. Evan talks about the emotional reactions people had when they realized they weren’t actually talking to him, the disturbing effectiveness of AI in fraud, and the strange intimacy of hearing your own voice say things you didn’t write. He also reflects on what it means to resist optimization—not because tech can’t help, but because some parts of life aren’t meant to be outsourced.

This episode is a human story wrapped inside a technological one—about trust, loneliness, and how we navigate a world where even our voices aren’t entirely our own.

Key takeaways:

AI voice agents challenge more than trust—they challenge identity.
Evan’s experiment revealed just how disorienting it is when people hear your voice and think it’s you—only to realize it’s not. The emotional impact was real: friends felt tricked, disconnected, and in some cases, deeply lonely.
Scammers are already using AI—and they’re getting better at it.
Far from being hypothetical, AI-powered scams are already widespread and industrialized. Voice cloning isn’t just a curiosity—it’s a weapon, and we’re all potential targets. A family safe word might be your best defense.
Not everything should be optimized—and maybe that’s the point.
Evan pushes back on the idea that life should be frictionless. In the pursuit of efficiency, we risk removing the small, inconvenient interactions that actually make life meaningful—like small talk, shared confusion, and human error.
This moment feels like early social media—and we should be paying attention.
Henrik and Jeremy reflect on the eerie parallels between today’s AI boom and the rise of the social web. Back then, few anticipated the long-term impact on mental health and connection. With AI, we may be walking into similar territory—unless we ask harder questions now.

LinkedIn: Evan Ratliff | LinkedIn
Website: Evan Ratliff – Journalist
Shell Game Podcast: Shell Game | Evan Ratliff

00:00 Intro: Thoughts on AI Deception
00:40 Meet Evan Ratliff: Technology, Crime, and Identity
01:13 The Shell Game Podcast: Exploring AI Voice Cloning
03:50 Challenges and Improvements in AI Voice Technology
04:57 Inspiration Behind the Voice Cloning Experiment
11:05 Practical Applications and Ethical Considerations
17:31 AI in Scamming: Risks and Realities
25:04 Protecting Yourself from AI Scams
27:49 Reflecting on Technological Change and Human Adaptation
29:59 The Reluctance to Embrace New Technology
30:36 The Dangers of Social Media
31:59 AI in Therapy and Personal Experiences
33:39 Creating an AI Agent of Yourself
38:09 The Challenges of Small Talk with AI
38:55 Personal Tech Stack and AI Usage
42:59 Balancing Efficiency and Meaningfulness
45:32 The Future of AI and Human Interaction
52:18 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

📜 Read the transcript for this episode:

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Henrik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/werdelin
Jeremy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyutley

Show edited by Emma Cecilie Jensen.

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